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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » g2ools utilities
g2ools-1.5 nm2g2 and dx2g2 converters
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qfingers



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 183
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject:  g2ools-1.5 nm2g2 and dx2g2 converters Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uploaded missing version 1.5 but this doesn't have the windows .exe file. I'll see if I can recreate it later. For now, you need to execute it with python. Sorry...

(2007-08-30 note Blue Hell : restored the big zip with the windows exe, see attachment comments)

Edit: version 1.5 released
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-105459.html
shows what was updated.

Edit: version 1.3 released

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-104341.html

The link above shows what was updated.

Edit: 1.2 fixed check

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-103337.html

for details.

Edit: Problem with 1.1. I had to pull it before it got out.

Hello,

With alot of hard work between myself and 3phase, this application is finally in 1.0 release state. There have been numerous bug fixes, and new models for all NM1 patches. I have tested it against about 10000 patches for bugs and errors and it worked without error. 3phase has tested for sound quality against the original NM1 patche and the converted G2 patch and says they are very close. The only major problem we have discovered is tuned delay patches as the NM1 delay and G2 are very different implementations. We also had several discussions on copyright issues and have come up what I think is the best solution. My converter adds a couple of NameBars with "All Rights Reserved". There are several NameBars that show my name and 3phases as authors of various parts of the application. It colorizes models of NM1 modules that required several modules setup correctly to work the same as the original.

If you are using Linux or OSX, you need python installed. It's been tested on python 2.4 and above. There is a Windows XP executable. This program must be run from it's directory as there are alot of files it needs to run. If you problems, post a question. There are many people here who can help you.

I can't thank 3phase enough, we spent the last week and about 100 emails getting this thing just right. He stayed up late as we are 8 hours apart. His willingness and dedication got me through when I was too tired. I'm sure I had the same affect on him. It was great working with him. Several heated discussions and ultimately resolutions and all the bug reports, fixes, and stuff was alot of fun.

There will probably be future version as bug reports come in. Though I don't expect too many. I'm going to write a series of applictions for the G2 which is the reason I call it g2ools. The next one will be a patch cleaner that can shorten cables connections and possibly decrease resource usage so the patch looks nicer, easier to read, and hopefully take less resources.

So take it, use it, post sucessess, failures, feature requests, cool patches, patch collections, any otherthings you may want to discuss about future g2ools programs and stuff.

BlueHell, I was thinking it might be a good idea to make this post sticky so people can find it easier. But I'll leave that up to you.

q


g2ools-1.5.zip
 Description:
The version without the standalone exe

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 Filename:  g2ools-1.5.zip
 Filesize:  810.95 KB
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g2ools-1.5.zip
 Description:
The complete version with the standalone exe

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 Filename:  g2ools-1.5.zip
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Last edited by qfingers on Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:30 am; edited 12 times in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks q and Sven, great job ! And an unbelievably fast realization of such a complex program, hats off.

I'll make it a sticky happy smoker

edit : For history & development see : http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-15095.html

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Last edited by Blue Hell on Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BlueHell,

Do you think I should remove the old version? As it's no longer useful. Unless the history is not a bad thing.

q
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
BDo you think I should remove the old version? As it's no longer useful. Unless the history is not a bad thing.


Some links might be nice, from here to there and the other way around - to have some context. I'd remove the old software from there, it would only give you service requests for stuff that's been long fixed. But I'll leave it up to you, just see what suits you best.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just try 1,0 and it works very good...
But..i think i share some tips..there is one condition that translates not well..manily thru limitations of the G2 handling internal overloads..
Feedbacked loops on high settings can cause the G2 to go mad...
when a patch is making screaming noise or just makes a short sound and than stops you better look for such a internal loop and reduce the feedback setting a bit.

Its not easy to get a grip on this problem because reducing such amounts of feedback automatical, might make a rough patch sound nice while a fine tuned Chet Singer creation will stop playing at all...
I actually started to see that as a G2 bug during the development of the converter... I never did so close 1:1 comparisons between G2 and NM1..
And regarding internal feedbacks the G2 acts nowhere as good as the Nm1... However.. maybe future versions of nm2g2 can deal with that better..or..what i would more like..a G2 update solves the issue..
That would be rather the point to attack the problem.


Some other things that might cause problems:
For overview reasons logic modules are translated 1:1... what can lead in patches with extensiv logic module use to translations that get over 100%
As long there is no optimizer its easy to safe some resources by making use of the double gates of the g2..screwing overview this way..

Other point are the AD envelopes...often used on the NM1 to safe resources.. On the G2 the opposite is the case..So when a conversion gets over 100% you can safe some % by changing AD against ADSR envelopes..but note that there are cases in sequenced patches where you have to make the release times slightly longer because the ADSR envs dont have a trigger mode as the AD ones...

and 2 patches that got just freshly converted...
the 303 one was a victim of the feedback loop problem...


303emuV21.pch2
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 Filename:  303emuV21.pch2
 Filesize:  9.27 KB
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grainalizzer22.pch2
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please, don't remove the first thread, indeed, for histories sake!

Wout
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think this thread can have somepatches in it... to make it more colorfull

Chet Singers Acouistic guitar for NM1..now also in a G2 version...

I was surprised that it was possible to convert such a patch at all...
There are some hand tweaks inside to get the tuning wright...
Because of the longer delay times of the G2 and a general different behavior of the delay modules this was necessary...
I wonder how it can be done to let nm2g2 do that automatical...
not so easy i guess..
anybody ideas?

However the tuning was quick done..just reducing the mod amount by factor 0.5 and use of the tune control in chet singers circuit...
And even without that reduction by factor 0.5 its all just an octave lower...
not to bad... Its however better to get the patch higher with the delay time factor than by transposing the keyboard because the blue to grey converter inside the patch is tuned for the 3 center octaves...
I am very happy that is was possible to get a such big usefull tuning range at all... Grey signals are one of the biggest incompatibilitys between Nm1 and G2...


csG2romanticX.pch
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 Filename:  csG2romanticX.pch
 Filesize:  4.16 KB
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csG2romanticX.pch2
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 Filename:  csG2romanticX.pch2
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Last edited by 3phase on Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:45 am; edited 3 times in total
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Hyde



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

will someone PLEASE post a step-by-step tutorial on getting this thing to work in Mac OSX using MacPython? for those of us non-unix type n00bs who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag?

there's no gui and therefore no user-friendliness. i have tried. i have failed. please help me out.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

step by step tutorial? now way...
i just installed phyton...clicked on it..no results...than cappy told me that i need to set the path of the phyton within the program document by typing ´which phyton´in the console /terminal window...
the answer was no phyton in /bla/bla...ans so on..a miles long adress...


than i found an applikation called IDLE... sometimes also called IDE..the editor or phyton shell... I opened the program file with it..replaced the adress in the first line with the one the which phyton command showed me..
safed it.
after that the phyton apps suddenly got icons and when i double clicked the nm2g2.py aplication a terminal window opened...

there i had to type ./nm2g2.py patchname.pch

nothing happened...
i had to put the patch in the folder where the program was...
nothing happened..
i removed empty spaces and dots from the patch name...
than it worked...

There are probably better ways to deal with it and probably its possible to convert also patches at other locations... but... no idea yet...
at least it works.. and its actually not to uncomfortable...

I still like to learn how to convert whole folders ..that would speed up bug finding quite a bit..because many bugs are solved most patches are converted wright..it needs time to find one that does crap...
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This Program is so cool Smile
anybody needs a clock?
The famous Ico Doornekamp clock...
Man..i miss the days where you found such patches in your mailbox...
For some reason the NM1 was more pushed to the limits as the G2..
maybe becaus it had more??


iclock01.pch2
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great work guys! I can't thank you enough.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
This Program is so cool Smile
anybody needs a clock?
The famous Ico Doornekamp clock...
Man..i miss the days where you found such patches in your mailbox...
For some reason the NM1 was more pushed to the limits as the G2..
maybe becaus it had more??

Does it run right? And in time? Very Happy

No, it hadn't more...
It was just a new machine, special to a small group of wierdo's!
Who the hell wants to look at his synthesizer to learn the time?
And who wants to draw cubes on his scope...?
Who wants his synthesizer to speak: "Kees!"

That was the old list.
Those are the guys who still meet, mow and then.
Next time in Frandeax...

That were the guys who explained and explained and explained over and over again to every newbie how the damn thing works Smile

Wout
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:

Chet Singers Acouistic guitar for NM1..now also in a G2 version...


This is great, and if you shift the cords connected to 'note' to 'pitch' in the top left of the VA, then the pitch bend works as well.
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
3phase wrote:

Chet Singers Acouistic guitar for NM1..now also in a G2 version...


This is great, and if you shift the cords connected to 'note' to 'pitch' in the top left of the VA, then the pitch bend works as well.


I guess that would be a bug. It's easily fixable. Added to my TODO list.

q
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I started converting the NM1 patch collection and have discovered a couple of bugs. I'm fixing them as I go along. It had to do with pre v3.03 patches. I wasn't parsing the cable section correctly. Of course, most of the work was with V3.03 patches so it went undiscovered. I'm going to do these few fixes and post a new release soon. The more complicated fixes for tuned delays and such will have to wait.

q
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
g2ian wrote:
3phase wrote:

Chet Singers Acouistic guitar for NM1..now also in a G2 version...


This is great, and if you shift the cords connected to 'note' to 'pitch' in the top left of the VA, then the pitch bend works as well.


I guess that would be a bug. It's easily fixable. Added to my TODO list.

q


No..its not a bug because the NM1 dont has a pitchstick or wheel..
but of cause nm2g2 could use this conection if availible instead the plain note output..
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
qfingers wrote:
g2ian wrote:
3phase wrote:

Chet Singers Acouistic guitar for NM1..now also in a G2 version...


This is great, and if you shift the cords connected to 'note' to 'pitch' in the top left of the VA, then the pitch bend works as well.


I guess that would be a bug. It's easily fixable. Added to my TODO list.

q


No..its not a bug because the NM1 dont has a pitchstick or wheel..
but of cause nm2g2 could use this conection if availible instead the plain note output..

If the Note output on the Keyboard module handles pitch bend from an external MIDI keyboard, I think the converter should as well. It is cool the g2 has this distinction because you can create multi-oscillator patches that leaves some oscillators on the pitch while the bender modulates the others for a cool effect.

q
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hyde wrote:
will someone PLEASE post a step-by-step tutorial on getting this thing to work in Mac OSX using MacPython? for those of us non-unix type n00bs who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag?

there's no gui and therefore no user-friendliness. i have tried. i have failed. please help me out.


Gui? "You don't need no steenkin GUI" Smile
(In the beginning, twas the Command Line...)
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
step by step tutorial?
I still like to learn how to convert whole folders


did you try wildcards?
./nm2g2.py *.pch

It works for me- on windows, should be the same on *nix/Mac Os
As I mentioned in a previous last post- it's better if the patch names do not have any spaces in them. You might want to check that before doing a whole directory of patches.
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As for the GUI issue, if someone want to create a wrapper application, I will be happy to include it in the distribution. The reason I wrote a command-line one is it can be used within other programs (converting 36000 patches for instance), I can create a web server that can receive patches and convert them. And I can wrap it with a GUI. If I created as a GUI app, I could not do what I can do with it in it's current state. So that said, someone can write the wrapper for it, I'm ok with that. I don't want to build it, test it, debug it, etc. I've got enough on my plate as it is. But I will include it.

q
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have two points to make

3phase wrote:
This Program is so cool Smile
anybody needs a clock?
The famous Ico Doornekamp clock...
Man..i miss the days where you found such patches in your mailbox...
For some reason the NM1 was more pushed to the limits as the G2..
maybe becaus it had more??


1. the NM Classic OS v3.03 was not updated for almost 5 (1999-2003) years until the G2 was released, so many workarounds and new discoveries were made with the forever locked feature set.

The g2 has not been updated in 1 year. So people's expectations are to wait until "the next OS update", hence not AS MUCH pushing as the NM1. Also the NM1 was and still is a revolutionary product, while the G2 is an exension to it. If I was a betting man, I would bet there are more NM1 users than G2 (because of the NM1 micro and the amount of time of the NM classic on the market).

2. The NM Micro Modular user can now "double their polyphony" by importing their patches into the G2 demo thanks to qfinger's wonderful g2tools.

Just 2 thoughts, while I sit in a hotel room, with a Dave Smith Evolver and the G2 demo s/w "keeping the creative juices flowing". I'm waiting to hook up with grimley tonight.
/Dasz

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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:

Gui? "You don't need no steenkin GUI" Smile


If that were true, I'd be unemployed Smile
/Dasz
ps.: Word, I don't need Word. vi is all I need Wink

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qfingers



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:

The g2 has not been updated in 1 year. So people's expectations are to wait until "the next OS update", hence not AS MUCH pushing as the NM1. Also the NM1 was and still is a revolutionary product, while the G2 is an exension to it. If I was a betting man, I would bet there are more NM1 users than G2 (because of the NM1 micro and the amount of time of the NM classic on the market).

My hope is to change that. With the NM1 collection ported to the G2, people with their own patch sets that could upgrade because of the loss of patches now have a path. And with the number of cool patches, I'm hoping get new users. We need to promote the G2 so clavia will keep it alive. And if they don't, we need to keep it alive. Both the NM1 and G2 are fantastic products and I think they fir the nitch where no one else can. This is my contribution to the community. I hope it's enough.

Quote:
2. The NM Micro Modular user can now "double their polyphony" by importing their patches into the G2 demo thanks to qfinger's wonderful g2tools.

I haven't thought of that one. Cool.

q
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers (what is your real name btw???, mine truly is dasz - a shortened/nicked version of my Polish first name),

I applaud you for wanting to "keep the g2 alive". I'm sure Clavia is reading these threads and realizing that some kind of reaction on the G2 front from them will go a long way with us users & potential/lurking users.

But they are Swedish, and they like to listen a lot more than to talk, and they have other products (like the new mystery thing) to support -- that is a lot for a small development company to ask for (now up to 6 products, I think???, and the upcoming NAMM show to prepare for).

Actions speak greater than words. And just like the Sedin twins (Daniel and Henrik) when they score goals for the Vancouver Canucks hockey team -- they do not like to talk about it, they like the replay videos to speak for them Wink, Clavia will reply in one way or another, I hope.
/Dasz

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
qfingers (what is your real name btw???, mine truly is dasz - a shortened/nicked version of my Polish first name),

My is Matt, short for Matthew, but I prefer Matt. I was a lurker for several years even before the G2. I wanted an NM1 but the time was not right. I didn't have the money. Novamusik had a sale for the G2X and I got mine for $2100. The time was right. I bought one and started thinking about the converter. I was suprised no one else took up the challange. But you guys are sound designers (something I desire to be some day), I'm a an electrical engineer working for a top DSP research company (we do RF stuff) programming. So, it looked like a converter might be fun to write. Then I started reverse engineering the USB protocol and the .pch2 file format. From there, BlueHell provided enough data for both the NM1 and G2 for me to get an initial version running quick. I thought I'd take my time, have something in 6 months, and then tweak the thing a while. Well, it took about 3 weeks for the initial version and 3phase got involved (thankfully). He would test the thing, I would fix the thing, and around and around we go. Here is the result. It's still early but very stable. The next version will be better, decrease resource usage, parse more NM1 patches, and sound closer to the original. I never thought I'd be this far today. I converted the NM1 patch collection 36000 patches (probably duplicates) actually generating 33000 patches. Of the 3000 left, 100 were problems with my converter, the rest were .pch version < 3. So that's my story. Me and 3phase are on another round of heavy development and model building, discovering new things. I'll probably have version 1.1 out in a week, maybe sooner. This synth rocks. It's exactly what I want and need. I can be more creative with this unit then any in existance. Plus, it's a very stable platform. It starts in seconds (not like my Fantom-X, or Korg Triton). So this thing is cool. I may give a lunch seminar at my company (full of DSP engineers), to show it's capabilties.

Quote:
I applaud you for wanting to "keep the g2 alive". I'm sure Clavia is reading these threads and realizing that some kind of reaction on the G2 front from them will go a long way with us users & potential/lurking users.

But they are Swedish, and they like to listen a lot more than to talk, and they have other products (like the new mystery thing) to support -- that is a lot for a small development company to ask for (now up to 6 products, I think???, and the upcoming NAMM show to prepare for).

Actions speak greater than words. And just like the Sedin twins (Daniel and Henrik) when they score goals for the Vancouver Canucks hockey team -- they do not like to talk about it, they like the replay videos to speak for them Wink, Clavia will reply in one way or another, I hope.
/Dasz


Here is what I would like to see from Clavia:

1. Editor ported to Linux
2. Protocols opened for both NM1 and G2
3. File formats opened for both NM1 and G2

If 1 doesn't happen, I'm going to look into hacking "wine" to see if I can get the existing editor to run with a working interface to the synth. Number 2 is being reverse engineered, at least the USB portion by me. It's got a long way to go. Number 3, really isn't needed except to maybe support older NM1 formats. There are a couple of holes but, nothing that effects the operation because my converter works and the synth plays most the patches that are converted.

Still this would be useful to us. I've got alot of ideas, for the next several years of applications I want to write. So, this thing won't die even if Clavia decides to discontinue this product. And I'll have fun doing alot of the stuff. This convert is the most complicated, the rest is simple by comparison. So the hard part is done. Now we need to fine tune it and grow the community (hopefully with new owners).

That's my story.

q
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