electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
Getting down there?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [8 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Dimension X



Joined: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Getting down there? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I have been producing electronic music for a few years but there is one element of my music in particular which I think is holding me back somewhat.

That is... When I try to make really 'low down'- sub bass lines. No matter what VST's I use (that I have at my disposal), there always seems to be distortion when I set the oscillator to the low frequency that I actually want (the kind of frequency you feel more than you hear)

I was looking into getting a powercore firewire system and getting the access virus VST which seems to have more low end grunt than the Korg Legacy cell synths and others that I am currently using. But really I need to know if this will actually solve anything or just give me the same problems as before.

I've been advised on another forum to export the wavs once I finish the track and then edit the distortion out using wavelab. However, although this seems to be a usefull technique, I was wondering whether anyone had any other suggestions? As it's difficult to make a track , when you can't even hear it all properly in the first place!

If anyone does have some suggestions that would really be of great help to me.

All the best
Andy

_________________
'I don't care what some people say. People say the same sh*t, every f*cking day'

Dimension X
http://www.myspace.com/phattmandrill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some related stuff here: What is bass

Bass is tricky. First of all most consumer playback systems cannot do bass well at all. Unless you intend to deliver a mix for large venues only, stay off the very deep stuff. If you cannot stay off it anyway, be prepared to spend both time and money on this.

Issue number two:
A good studio monitor will hopefully not add the usual embarassing artifacts that consumer loudspeakers will add. This is good, but it also means that you won´t have a clue how it will sound on consumer gear at all. Always keep a few pairs of lesser stuff around for those late night reality checking sessions.

Issue number three:
Your control room/project studio realy gotta be acoustically treated. There is no such thing as to many bass traps. A good control room should of course not be acoustically dead, but those standing waves just have to go.

Issue number four
When you play bassy stuff in an acoustically treated room, well damped and all that, on superb studio monitors, you will be missing the artifacts that 99% of the CD buying public out there will think of as the real thing. Shocked This leads to the fact that you should spend some time on understanding the artifacts that spells "there is some heavy bass going on" See the What is bass thread for some ideas.



Another issue when patching up bass on softsynths and recording using DAWs is that you might have gain structure problems and also internal clipping somewhere in the signal chain.

How loud are you really recording your tracks?
See this thread for more info: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-17254.html

If you really want deep bass, then consider that CD Audio has a limited range and that brickwalling the mixdown or the master will make a mess of dynamics.

Trivia: Most cheap bass reflex ( cabinets vented with a tube or something of the sort ) will selfcombust if fed a really loud bass signal a tad below or at the resonance freq. of the vent/driver system. You can try this with some realy cheap and shitty vented speakers. Use a tone generator. Play it loud and let the frequency drop. Watch the frequency. Soon the cone will start flapping in the wind. If you use a good and powerful amp you will soon have destroyed both the cone and coil. If you are lucky you will set it on fire.

So why won´t pop music CDs kill your speakers like that? Basically because anything below 50 or even 80Hz is filtered out. However, pop music CDs will be damned loud anyway but that is another story.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW: Korg Legacy cell synths.. like the MS 20.. good stuff!
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dimension X



Joined: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
BTW: Korg Legacy cell synths.. like the MS 20.. good stuff!


Yeh, you can definately squeeze some pretty old skool sounds out of that puppy! Smile

_________________
'I don't care what some people say. People say the same sh*t, every f*cking day'

Dimension X
http://www.myspace.com/phattmandrill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8933
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could get this month's copy of Sound on Sound mag. This months issue is dedicated to bass Very Happy

http://www.soundonsound.com/

Personally I've never been able to get decent bass out of a computer. That's why I've always turned to the 'real thing' like an SH-101.

However I know that some people manage it with soft synths. Emagic's ES-1 was good at bass.

_________________
ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:

So why won´t pop music CDs kill your speakers like that? Basically because anything below 50 or even 80Hz is filtered out. However, pop music CDs will be damned loud anyway but that is another story.


Absolutely. I don't realy have more to add to my comments in the linked discussion except that I'd like to add yet again that the same holds true for many great sounding releases in styles famous for being loud and bass-heavy.

To the tune of "it aint what you do..."; It aint what you hear, it's the way that you hear it.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dimension X



Joined: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

To the tune of "it aint what you do..."; It aint what you hear, it's the way that you hear it.


After reading the what is bass thread. I am certainly becoming more aware of the minds perception of sounds rather than focusing too much on the physical elements of sound itself. Very interesting! Very Happy The wealth of knowledge and interlect you all display in the thread is frankly mindblowing. Cool

_________________
'I don't care what some people say. People say the same sh*t, every f*cking day'

Dimension X
http://www.myspace.com/phattmandrill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We aim to please. Laughing


Trivia: Keep in mind that using presets on many mass market synths and polkaboard is a hazard of sorts. Many sounds are layered and many sounds have excessive bass. When recording these you might end up with a lot of mush and you might end up with level problems because something somewhere is damned loud. Presets are partly made to sound impressive on their own and to show off what a synth can do.
The rule is: Always understand what it is you are recording. Very Happy

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [8 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use