Small mixers

Antimon

I did a search through this forum but couldn't find exactly what I was after - if anyone knows an already existing topic, please point me there.

I've been annoyed at my Alto S-8 for leaking audio from tape-out to main out (even if I turn off that route), so I'm thinking about getting a better mixer, or possibly soundcard with hands-on mixer features. I've grown to like changing EQ and fading manually, and since I'm not a pro I have a long learning curve due to lacking time and energy.

So: a small mixer (no more than 30 cms wide), as many faders/knobs as that space allows, and as many of those in stereo as possible. Does anyone know of a good unit around 500 euro/$? Know anything specific to stay away from (I'm not going to get a Behringer)? If this thing does not exist, what would be the best substitute? I hook up synths and route between them and the DAW using an external patchbay, but I also sing and play guitar.

I browsed around at Thomann and a more local site, but there aren't that many mixers on the market. The closest thing I saw was some stuff called "Spirit", but I don't know...

Appreciate any kind of help.

/Stefan
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elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:48 am Post subject:

Too expensive possibly, but these are pretty good.
http://www.allenheath.co.uk/UK/wz320s.asp

Truth be told, these products do seem kinda lame compared to the budget products from Behringer, Alto and the rest of the no-budget/low-budget vendors. However, the Allen and Heath products are really good.

Mackie is pretty good too.

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:16 am Post subject:

I almost forgot to mention these:
http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=24

Pretty OK stuff.

Antimon · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:19 am Post subject:

Thanks.

Yes, the Allen & Heath was a bit pricey, but I like the way they made it more compact by having two inputs for each mixing strip.

Actually, looking on Thomann (i must have done womething wrong in my search earlier), I see that the Mackie Onyx 1220 kind of is within my range. Any experience with the firewire add-on?

/Stefan

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:21 am Post subject:

That M-Audio firewire equipped mixer thingie is reasonably OK too. The features provided makes the product. I think you migt find some reviews online somewhere.

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

The mackie FW Onyx range is pretty good. The mixer section is great but the FW option is slightly less tittilating. The M-Audio product offers more integration. You can route audio from your DAW to analog outboard connected to the mixer and then back in.

jksuperstar · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:44 am Post subject:

In a similar range is the Alesis mixers, that have the same firewire interface (I think they all use the same chipset). Alesis also makes a rack-mounted keyboard mixer, with faders and stereo channels, etc.

Antimon · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:04 am Post subject:

OK, thanks! Now I have some stuff to check out. Very Happy

/Stefan

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject:

Honestly, I do think that the use of a multipurpose budget mixer as the front end in a projectstudio is both overrated, misunderstood and needless. That doesn´t mean I don´t think you should get a mixer. It is always smart to have several mixers in the gear closet just in case.

My suggestion: Get a decent audio interface with lotsa inputs and outputs. It must have extensive software controlled routing and it should have balanced connections. If you need mic amps then buy some.

An often completely overlooked issue is setting up the monitor mix and you might want a simple and decent mixer for this. You can send subgroups or individual channels to the mixer and easily hack together one or more monitor mixes. Fact is that what you think you should use the mixer for is either best done in the monitoring end of it or in-the-box.

If you think you need more colour in the front end, then you can simply buy different standalone recording channels, preamps, compressors and such. I know that we are supposed to buy insanely expensive boutique devices ( like 5000 USD single channel EQs )in order to show ourselves worthy of making recordings. Shocked

Ignore that, and be content with budget/mid range gear. There are some wonderful bagains out there.

Main point is that a mixer is mostly an obstruction in a project studio. It is usually best to set up a flexible routing ( patch bays are great ) and if you need a mixer that one would best be placed in the monitoring end of things. Keep in mind that this mixer should be patched out of the loop when you are entering the production/mixdown phase. By then you should be listening to the stero mixdown as transparently as possible.

I almost forgot; of course you might want line mixers / submixers. Those should also be as simple as possible and as neutral as possible.

Kevin Kissinger bought an RME Fireface 800. He discussed several interesting issues in a thead here somewhere. You might want to read his comments.

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject:

Some additional comments:

If you work with a laptop and want to capture performances then the Mackie Onyx and similar products would be interesting. You use the mixer for the band and keep it in the rehearsel room. You can even use it for small gigs. When you want to capture perfomances then you simple bring a laptop with an FW port.

If you have several keyboards and want connect these to a mixer in order to just sit down and play the lot of keys, then you might consider one of the new breed of linelevel mixers with direct outs for each channel. The stereo out you plug into your keyboard monitors and the channel outs go into the audio interface.

This is one of this type:
http://www.smproaudio.com/DI8.htm

Antimon · Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:22 am Post subject:

Hm. I see your point. I know you have advocated multiinput audio interfaces instead of mixers before. I'll have to think more about what I need.

/Stefan

iPassenger · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:18 am Post subject:

On this note, I used to have an 8in 8 out pc card and stopped using my mixer altogether, however i do think that this becomes slightly restrictive, particularly with complex routing, so i am back using the mixer again, altho i know from a sound quality point of view it is not the way to do it. Really you need both and a good patchbay that way you have the best of both worlds, but alas my finances are not running that far at the moment. From my experience all mackie mixers seem to have nice sound that don't mind being driven but i haven't heard any of the onyx range.

shaft9000 · Joined: Aug 12, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Arizona, USA

if you go the audio interface route w/o a mixer, be sure you get a patchbay.
a faulty a.i. jack can slam the brakes on your project and are not as sturdy as mixer jacks, generally.

Antimon · Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:37 am Post subject:

If anyone's interested, I ended up scrapping the mixer and my soundbox and got a MOTU Ultralite. Let's see how this goes. It was a bit of a "i'm tired of thinking, let's buy something", but it seems to do what I want, even though the tiny knobs are a bit awkward to use. I already have a patchbay, so I think it will work. I like that it can work as a standalone mixer when the DAW is off.

Thanks for all your help. Smile

/Stefan