electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
poster
 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
when do you know a composition is finished?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
Stanley Pain



Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Reading, UK
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 35

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: when do you know a composition is finished?
Subject description: deadlines aside
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when do you know a composition is finished? (deadlines aside)
_________________
there's no I in TEAM, so let's all act as individuals instead
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When the previous version was better than the last one the previous one was finished ... that doesn't mean it was good of course Very Happy
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Low Note



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 146
Location: New Jersey
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I didn't make plans for myself, I'd never accomplish anything.

I normally draw out a roadmap for what I want to do after I figure out whats going into the music. I try to keep myself from re-editing anything out of indecisiveness. That just wastes time.

I've got a handful of things I did a few years ago I want to edit because things came to me after listening to the piece repeatedly for a whilet, but I haven't found the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 2067
Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Because I mostly just play, recording only occasionally, and almost never notating, "finished compositions" for me fall into one of two camps:

Pieces where my playing gets stuck in a (sometimes listenable) rut, and I tend to play the piece largely "as is," with some minor variations, almost every time I play it.

Pieces that are more like "generators"' -- themes, fragments, even plain old instrumental licks -- that I string together, play around with, and pretty much never "finish."

I never really decide something's done; it just falls into one of those two patterns. An amateur's perspective.

_________________
When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, nothing is ever truly "done" for me either.

But for the purpose of producing works of art for the audience, I stop working on it when it just feels right - when what was in my head comes out of my monitors.

Sometimes I'll write something, put it away, and some time later take it out and give it a ginormous, hugantic make-over and it comes out much better.

I find myself constantly re-learning the importance of stepping back from the music, though, and approaching it anew after some time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sam_Zen



Joined: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 251
Location: NL

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right on, audiodef, it's never truly "done". So it's more a choice of publishing some version.
Some stay that way, others not. Maybe after years one decides to increase the playback speed with 1.7 %..

This is an extra aspect electronics have : it's quite easy to change an instrument or phrase, while the score stays the same.
A composition is maybe never finished, as a website is always 'under construction'.

If a score is performed live, there's no finished one either. Every time it will be a bit different, no matter exact logic.

One mark to stop adding anything could be the wondering : - I want more, but am I not repeating an old trick of mine?

_________________
0.618033988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the following:

1. When I can't work out how to improve it further, even after several listens (on various systems) and days off.

2. When I realise it isn't that good an idea.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12398
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when I get sick of it

Cool

and I can grow sick in no time

Shocked

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seraph,

that was my number 3. reason but i left it out cos i thought it sounded too negative. Wink

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12398
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
Seraph,

that was my number 3. reason but i left it out cos i thought it sounded too negative. Wink


well...it's simply the truth

Wink

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 2067
Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coming back and revisiting a piece some months after it gets stuck certainly helps. Sometimes it overhauls the piece, or sometimes branches off to start a new, related piece.

I have a piece "Lost Soul" that I wrote on acoustic banjo on Halloween evening on the front porch in 2003. I had been trying to write a depressing piece, and the previous piece had started out melancholy, but when that previous piece stalled, I decided to try the blues for sadness, and instead it wound up with this rocking rhythm & blues piece that I called "Not for the Count" because in that one I was down, but not for the count (as they say in boxing).

Anyway, Lost Soul worked out pretty well, some surprising shifting harmonies in it, and it was pretty much "finished." Then, just this January, I started playing around with Max/MSP, and cobbled up some FX that made the banjo sound like playing bed springs, and at times like it was coming apart. I couldn't come up with a new piece for the sound, so I tried some of my old pieces to see what would fit, and "Lost Soul" was a perfect fit. Not only the harmonies, but now also the timbres, sounded like a lost soul.

It was actually too depressing to play, so I let it sit for a few months. Last night I was in a good mood, so I worked with it some more, deciding that I need to back off on the FX somewhat at places, otherwise it gets too muddy. Now it's a work in progress again.

So, it was nicely finished as an acoustic banjo piece, and now it's not finished as a processed banjo piece. Even for pieces that are "done" or "sick of," one can always get inspiration later to go open it up again.

_________________
When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sam_Zen



Joined: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 251
Location: NL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One aspect one never can be sure of : the right playback speed of the score.
Listen to it 2 month later and one could think "hmm, maybe a tiny bit slower..".

_________________
0.618033988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wayne Higgins



Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Greenville, FL
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I look at my music as drawings. When I do a drawing, I take a good look at it. I either throw it away, file it away, or add it to the portfolio. Same with the music. Once I'm done with it, I'm done. Time to move on. There usually isn't anything I want to add to how I felt on 11/28/07 (random example). If the drawing is simple, complicated, stressed, complex, abstract, noisey, abrasive, pleasant, ... so be it. Few occaisions, I find that I want to add to the work. (Wake up at 6am thinking "you should redo that one!") More often, I just work on the next one, do something different. It's later when I decide wether or not to file it away, how to enhance (frame/matte) the work. I try not to labor over anything. I have in the past, often with frustrating and undesireable results.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kijjaz



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: bangkok, thailand
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

for me, it finished when the fun of making is starting to decrease.

but actually.. fun is what i usually want to boost all the time whatever kind of music work i'm doing. ^_^"

hmm.. i kinda get lazy too often, that's all.. zzzz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This doesn't say whether the work is "done", but...

I've found that my musical "first instincts" are usually the best, and that if I do more than expand upon that instinct, such as try to add new ideas, well, it's just not as good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Veil



Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 24
Location: Taunton SW UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When you can listen to it and get a buzz from it, and the nagging 'what ifs' aren't strong enough to make you want to try them out.
_________________
VEIL - 'System Drills Volume 1' - OUT NOW ON TEST CONDITIONS - 12" & DOWNLOAD
Test Conditions.com
Test Conditions Myspace
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anigbrowl



Joined: Jan 21, 2008
Posts: 116
Location: San Francisco, USA
G2 patch files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I start putting it on just for the pleasure of hearing it rather than because I want to edit it further.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 2067
Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

anigbrowl wrote:
When I start putting it on just for the pleasure of hearing it rather than because I want to edit it further.

That's a good answer! Very Happy Me, too.

_________________
When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sam_Zen



Joined: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 251
Location: NL

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A clever expression indeed.
_________________
0.618033988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 2067
Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"How do you know when a composition is started?" is an equally interesting question. Over the last few weeks one of my banjos has started whispering what I think of as an "overlaid harmony" -- two (in this case) disjoint harmonies that flicker back and forth -- mostly caused by a finger picking style I've been developing, where the right hand picks a rhythmic pattern that normally requires harmonic stability in the left (fretting) hand, but the left hand changes back and forth between the two harmonic sequences in tight synchronization with the right hand's picking -- it can be a little tough to coordinate -- and you get this sense of flashing back and forth between two pieces.

Anyway, I have a new seed for a composition that I need to nurture, based on a more intensive use of this picking technique than I have tried before, so the problem now is how to start a full composition without falling into any existing ruts. The answer for me is to work on it slowly, a little at a time, but not so infrequently that I lose it.

_________________
When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Per



Joined: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have spent some time in the old electronica area where there never where talk about "compositions" or "concerts". Instead, it was "realizations", a moment of music that where recorded or played in front of an audience.
And there is something reliving in that word, "realization". We have got thing far with this music and our equipment and our s´kills, let us realise it, and it becomes a piece of music. Next time we do it, the basic things can have changed, and it becames a different piece of music.
It is a good attitude that take away a lot of the mental pressure of composing and preforming.
So. adding new things to a composition is not a question of finished or not, it more of adding more things to the next "realization".
I have used the metod myself for a 20 minute live act with G2´, drum machines and other gear. Each time it expands in time and varitation. I hope it never will be "finished". On the same time, every live act is a "realization", a finished piece of music.

Per
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sam_Zen



Joined: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 251
Location: NL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right on.
_________________
0.618033988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wayne Higgins



Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Greenville, FL
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was going to add that I let a disc sit for a month (more or less) after I have finished it, then listen to it to see if I should add or take away.

Per WELCOME
I really like the fact that someone else uses the term "realiztion" when refering to electronic music.

Please look at my site.
http://www.oenyaw.com

Where is your music?

_________________
http://www.virb.com/waynehiggins
http://www.myspace.com/waynehiggins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Per



Joined: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice site you have. Being a lazy guy I have no site, nor any myspace area anymore. But I use my music regular in the TV documentarys I make for living, and that is a sort of reuse, beside the recordings.
As I have emptied most of my download area on this site, I add my recent music piece. It is mainly written to be used for live use, it is based on a G2 performance, with some overdubs.
Per


08 mix1.3.mp3
 Description:
A piece of music. Nord G2 and Nord Wave for the overdubs, with Korg Electribe bass drum.

Download
 Filename:  08 mix1.3.mp3
 Filesize:  6.46 MB
 Downloaded:  924 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice track per !

And next time please complain that you have no room enough before you delete ... we can't have stuff like this deleted Shocked

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 1 of 2 [26 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use