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 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
Mixer Or Surface?
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What do you use?
Mixer
50%
 50%  [ 2 ]
Mouse / Control Surface
50%
 50%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 4

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject:  Mixer Or Surface?
Subject description: desk or DAW?
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Following on from dualphin's question about setups, I'm curious about how other peeps work.

So... which is your system? And why?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´ll step in first?

Cool!


Since I´m used to a traditional console/multitrack workflow I tend to to do stuff the old way. That basically means committing to the sounds and stuff when recording each layer. If something doesn´t work out I´ll simply do it again when I figure out I´ll have to do just that. I hook up whatever I need in the signal path and shape the sound the way I want it. Sometimes I use monitoring mock ups of the intended sound and do the tuning using the UAD-1 plugins. The mixerless DAW is perfect. And since I basically go audio to audio when recording then the levels and stuff are easy to figure out, And if there are some tricky spots, then doing hands on mixing wouldn´t solve the real problem anyways. That basically means I do the mix ITB. I have a few control surfaces, but I rarely use them for mixing.


OK, it might possibly be cool to do hands on mixing, but then this only works if you have way more channel sliders than the usual 8 and then you would only use these for capturing slider movements to the DAW and frankly, if the tracking work was done well then it will be far more productive to write some automation curves with the mouse rather than spending say 4000-6000 pounds on something that doesn´t really work well at all. Point is that much of the level fine tuning is best done with the mouse.

The money is better spent in compressors, preamps, reverbs, synth modules, EQs, DIs, room treatment and what have you.

if you ever need to record 2- 6 musicians in your projects studio simultanously then you will find that control surfaces are worthless. You will need headphone amps, mics, mic stands, DIs, a monitoring mixer and more. If you at some point go past 6 musicians then you´ll probably choose to do the tracking at some commercial facility.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right, I´ll probably be dragged screaming to the ovens by the music industry militia within a few hours. Goodbye!

The concept of control surfaces is good, but in order to really add something you really need then the sliders would have to be really really longthrow, and I mean bigtime.. like from Moscow to Tokyo.. you´ll need level meters for each channel as well as for the aux busses and every damned channel involved. A really good DAW control surface built for mixing would be a serious piece of kit. I´m sure we just might see a decent product before 2020, but at the moment there are none that will fit even my budget. The Euphonix stuff is OK but nothing more. It looks great though. We need way more than this. Spend your money on the stuff that matters.

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heh... but what do you really think, Elektro? Laughing

At the moment, DAW + control surface is the only practical way I can work. I disagree with the throw thingy as even piddly faders are easier to adjust than mousing around. Plus, it's difficult to mouse more than one thing at the same time (by different amounts, anyhow, excluding grouping).

I guess I play my control surface while I'm mixing, the same as I used to play my O2R. What I'd really love is a control surface with 72 200mm faders but, again, it isn't going to happen on my budget and space restrictions.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Keep in mind that I have already made up my mind about how effective a project studio work flow should be compared to what you find in say a mid 80s 24 track high end studio.

If you do the tracking work well then you will have something you can work with. If not then you record it again until you have what you need. Very Happy
The vital part is to always have the fridge full of beer.

From what I´ve seen so far, a mixer/ control surface will rather add sickenly huge number of errors to the gain control rather than be of any real help.

Right.. if you need a console then get one of the huge Tascams that are being literally thrown away these days. Fire it up and impress the clients. Don´t use it for mixing. A Tascam will however be great for monitoring and some tracking work.
Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Building a project studio is nearly an impossible task. The grass is always greener etc etc. It is hard to know when to stop.
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cbm



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mixer or control surface?

Why not both? I use on 02R for tracking and sub-mixing, and a Mackie Control for running Logic.

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heh... I knew I should have put extra options of 'both' and 'neither.'
Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Both is always good Laughing
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I mix on a mixer and record to a tape-recorder.... and I use controllers to control it all. logical, eh?

Don't use a DAW anymore, it's too slow for me and for me they tend to lead to endless tweaking and nerding around which tends to kill the vibe.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:

Right.. if you need a console then get one of the huge Tascams that are being literally thrown away these days. Fire it up and impress the clients. Don´t use it for mixing. A Tascam will however be great for monitoring and some tracking work.
Very Happy


I dunno? I co-mixed/produced a album on a "huge Tascam" and thought it came out quite nicely. I like them, nice headroom fairly neutral yet slightly flattering EQ, good all-round workhorses.

If you're mixing down a whole album with quite a few instruments and effects and you have two guys working at the same time to get it done in just two days (and most of the night...) a big console makes a lot more sense to me then fighting over the mouse and squinting at a screen. I don't care how large your monitor is; it's smaller then a serious Tascam :¬)

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I mix on a mixer and record to a tape-recorder.... and I use controllers to control it all. logical, eh?

Don't use a DAW anymore, it's too slow for me and for me they tend to lead to endless tweaking and nerding around which tends to kill the vibe.


You see, I agree with you here. With infinite possibilities comes infinite time arsing around instead of actually finishing a piece.

If I'm working on a DAW, I have to have quite strong willpower, not get distracted by the myriad plugins. I find it much easier to write a song on guitar or piano rather than on a computer, like a lot of peeps do now.

For me, I pretend the DAW is a big tape recorder so the control surface helps this illusion. Very Happy

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