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boony
Joined: Jul 06, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:26 am Post subject:
2 questions on electro composition Subject description: needing help |
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hey guys.
i would love it if someone could answer these questions for me
1. what is the basic structure of an electro song, like should the intro be a drum beat, or the bassline, or both or a melody, etc etc.
and also
2. how do i compose a buildup to a breakdown, i know it has something to do with fading out the bass, the when the build up finished blasting it. or something like that:( |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:31 am Post subject:
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I guess electro isn´t what it used to be, but then it never was.
OK, lets take a look at some various strains of what is called electro.
Musically it is a convergence and fusion of several styles. Some are obvious and some are rather whimsical.
One major ingredient is early 70s funk.
http://www.funkville.net/workshops.htm
Quote: | Funk de-emphasizes melody and harmony, and brings a strong rhythmic groove of electric bass and drums to the foreground. Unlike R&B and soul songs, which had many chord changes, funk songs are often based on an extended vamp on a single chord.Funk music was a major influence on the development of 1970s disco music and funk samples are used in most styles of hip hop music, and it's also the main influence of Go-Go and new wave. Funk utilized the same extended chords found in bebop jazz, such as minor chords with added sevenths and elevenths or dominant seventh chords with altered ninths. However, unlike bebop jazz, with its dizzying and complex rapid-fire chord changes, funk virtually abandoned chord changes, creating static single modal chord vamps with little harmonic movement, but with a complex and driving rhythmic feel. The chords used in funk songs typically imply a dorian or mixolydian mode as opposed to the major or natural minor tonalities of most popular music. Melodic content was derived by mixing these modes with the blues scale |
Pretty much at the same time the static single modal chord thingie happened in funk, exactly the same thing happened in the european avant psychedelia rock scene. bands like Can, Hawkwind and others explored this terrain. In the mainstream guys like Marc Bolan explored the boogie, and the more spaced out euro-boogie would soon tend to go resemble US funk.
Many of the european electronic acts would do the same as well. Vangelis would suddenly kick into some kind of vegetable mode and produce several pretty static tracks built up around classically sounding short musical phrases. Klaus Schulze and TD soon created their own signature methods. European music magazines at the time would call this elektro boogie, electronic boogie / boogie electronique. Kraftwerk would soon catch up. What they did was adding humour and rock´n roll ( mixed with some schall und rauch attitude). Their Man Machine concept LP and tour is basically all rock but with the blues completely eradicated and substituted with euro modernist ideas.
What happened next is history. The New York psycho-funk scene picked up all of this and the US electro movement was born.
In the UK one more thing had to happen though. Rock, prog and punk converged to create dark prog and the early goth styles and some of these strains turned up in the new romantics movement. The brit electro sound is something like Gary Numan .. and whatever..
There is a lot more to say about this, but the bottom line is that as long as you consider what went into the classic elektro sound then you either go for funk, the classic rock song or some sort of hybrid boogie with major chords and simply dress the song using the elements you want to use.
How to write the songs? Study the classic funk songs and styles! Then add some Kraftwerk and brit goth to it and you should be fine.
One point to make is that if you want to keep the spirit of the "style" alive then you should experiment rather than copy. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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boony
Joined: Jul 06, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:38 am Post subject:
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hey thanks heaps for the reply.
im not sure if it was the answer i needed/was looking for.
but you deffinatly bought up something i had never thought about before, and its something that would most likely be essential to do if i want to go anywhere in the music industrie im guessing?
so thank you for that.
im satisified with that as an answer to my first question.
but if someone has an answer to my second. dont be shy to post:) |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:
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I´m moving this to the Composition forum. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject:
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_________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject:
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No Parliament Funkadelic? _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject:
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You know, I'm in an iTunes sort of mood. Like a kid with a quarter for a Ms Pac game, I've got a buck to spend on Funk tonight. What song would you recommend? _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:
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"Bounce To This" - Parliament Funkadelic.
(February this year - had wanted to see them for almost 30 years and finally got to. A show, I'll never forget. ) |
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject:
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Ohh, yeah, slow Funk in a class by itself! Nice suggestion, thanks. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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LandOfDoAsYouPlease
Joined: Jul 19, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:54 am Post subject:
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I know this is stupid to ask,
But I'm having trouble understanding what electro-acoustic is. Is it sort of like the sound the band Mum has? Or is it playing the in the style of electronic music with acoustic sounds?
Also:
Is this forum dedicated just to that genre of music or is it dedicated to all electronic based music in general like industrial, experimental, techno, drum and bass, IDM, and such? _________________ I HEAR you and YOUR BAND are SELLING your GUITARS and BUYING TURNTABLES.
I HEAR you and YOUR BAND are SELLING your TURNTABLES and BUYING GUITARS.
They Put Angels In the Electric Chair. |
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:30 am Post subject:
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Everybody always talks about various ways of creating music electronically, to answer your second question. For the first, electro-acoustic guitars are acoustic guitars that have been fitted with electronics. But the term electro-acoustic may have a different meaning in the context of what the forum is about, I dunno. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:12 am Post subject:
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Previously I've though of electro-acoustic music as high-brow esoteric electronic music that they study at the university, but I think that some of that has started to blend in with more popular stuff - I think that acts like Murcof and even the occasional Radiohead track can qualify here nowadays. As with most things like this it's a bit hard to define. Try the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-acoustic_music
If you check out the various subforums here you'll find a great mass of different dicussions in many different fields, from recreating that synth sound from that Yes album to atonal, arhythmical things. You'll see the crowd change between the forums.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:26 am Post subject:
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As far as I'm concerned,
go down to your local train subway tunnel. You'll see a few people standing there busking. One is playing an upright double bass, another is playing a flute, and the third is singing just loud enough that she doesn't drown out the other two. This piece isn't being recorded, and the way it echos up and down the tunnel probably won't be heard exactly the same ever again.
At this point,...... this band is not a part of electro-music. Virtually all other music on the planet is!!
Uh oh!......... The bass player's mobile phone just started to ring!! Now their performance has entered electro-music territory!!!! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:34 am Post subject:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacoustic_music
Way before "electro" or "elektro" became a pop genre, this term was used as a term for electronic and electro-acoustic music. In that sense, this is reflected in electro-music.com . _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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boony
Joined: Jul 06, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:42 am Post subject:
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thanks for all the replies guys.
and to that dude who showed his funk list on itunes....thanks...i now have most of those songs:D |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:51 am Post subject:
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Related would be some of the weird european stuff.
The german group Can is important. Get the documentary DVD thingie.
And say.. Ultravox! The album Systems of Romance is important. This is basically where stylistically the brit electro pop song shows up first. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:34 am Post subject:
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boony wrote: | thanks for all the replies guys.
and to that dude who showed his funk list on itunes....thanks...i now have most of those songs:D |
You're very welcome, may you get your funk on all the time! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:40 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | This is basically where stylistically the brit electro pop song shows up first. |
Well, not quite.. but it will do for now.
What I have been trying to say here is that the near one chord groove seen in funk also happened, and perhaps a bit earlier, in european avantgarde/experimental/prog/psychedelic rock. Several of the european styles were almost flat and freeflowing but when funk started sliding into the NYC electro styles, then the traditional song structures mixed with heavy electronics had already happened and it seems that these days the "electro song" is rather closer to these european breeds than the US "electro" genre.
Right, and then there is german electronic disco.
The main lesson is to listen to what is going on and try to understand the big picture. That makes it easier to learn to copy and then learn to write music.
I will add that writing/ making music is rather about composition ( and that includes improvisation as well ) rather than production/mixing. That us why I moved this topic. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the videos, gave me something to do while vegitating after a few days of intense programming. kool _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject:
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Hey, iTunes doesn't have "We want the funk" by George Clinton. What gives? I gotta have it for my funk list. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject:
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Buy the goddamn CD? _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:
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My CD player is broken, but soon I will have a Linux laptop set up for music and I can buy CDs then. c'est la vie! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:41 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | Related would be some of the weird european stuff.
The german group Can is important. Get the documentary DVD thingie.
And say.. Ultravox! The album Systems of Romance is important. This is basically where stylistically the brit electro pop song shows up first. |
I've heard OF Can, for years and years and years but never have heard anything from. Quite curious.
IIRC - Neu were partially related band member wise to Can, weren't they?
Definitely credit Systems of Romance - to me, just as with the birth of the punk period (Stooges up to The Sex Pistols / Ramones), Ultravox should receive credit for bringing that angle of music out to our ears. Bold and almost in your face, at that time.
The 12" of Slow Motion and Dislocation from Systems of Romance! Slow Motion to this day is still, one of my most favourite electronic tunes ever.
Side note: still trying to find a pair of pointed toe shoes that are sky blue, like so'n'so's, from their 1st album cover. Been looking for 30 years, now. (sigh) |
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