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Dark Army
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Dark Army
Subject description: A new track from Uncle Krunkus
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I was inspired by the "Anti-religious electro" thread to finish this track.
Hope you like it.
BTW, As it is not the final mix, any critiques would be greatly appreciated.


Dark Army.mp3
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Unc. Wink

At the very beginning especially with the depth of the at first seemingly wandering bassline, I were greatly looking forward to things.

The next 2 instruments that came in though, began to clog up the harmonic spectrum, making it a little more difficult to pick out the individual instruments. Almost as if they were mutely fighting for frontage, rather than complementing each other.

The 2nd minor bass instrument that comes in seems lost in the deeper harmonics of the original one.
Perhaps one thing to do there, is to drop out the harmonics from the original bassline, that the 2nd one require, to sound clear.

A conflicting thought to the above though, when the 'piano type' sound then wanders in playing chords, it helps to cloud the harmonics together, making it even more difficult to pick out the 2nd bassline, as well as the upper harmonics of the 1st bassline and all together, as well as the backdrop that the entire track had started out with.

Down a different avenue now - as the drums finally do come in, I had the impression that they would be far more 'powerful' / 'in yer FACE'. They're somewhat laid back though .......

Expectations / thoughts of what I would do for them myself, (please note - this IS only MY preference / idea more so, than a suggestion as - this is only what I'd come to experct from the music that I heard leading up to that point) is a slightly distored / compressed drum set, with more of a tribal rhythm / feel to them - almost as if they were 'marching troops' assisting in the forward movement of the piece.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Hey Unc. Wink

At the very beginning especially with the depth of the at first seemingly wandering bassline, I were greatly looking forward to things.

The next 2 instruments that came in though, began to clog up the harmonic spectrum, making it a little more difficult to pick out the individual instruments. Almost as if they were mutely fighting for frontage, rather than complementing each other.

The 2nd minor bass instrument that comes in seems lost in the deeper harmonics of the original one.
Perhaps one thing to do there, is to drop out the harmonics from the original bassline, that the 2nd one require, to sound clear.

A conflicting thought to the above though, when the 'piano type' sound then wanders in playing chords, it helps to cloud the harmonics together, making it even more difficult to pick out the 2nd bassline, as well as the upper harmonics of the 1st bassline and all together, as well as the backdrop that the entire track had started out with.

Down a different avenue now - as the drums finally do come in, I had the impression that they would be far more 'powerful' / 'in yer FACE'. They're somewhat laid back though .......

Expectations / thoughts of what I would do for them myself, (please note - this IS only MY preference / idea more so, than a suggestion as - this is only what I'd come to experct from the music that I heard leading up to that point) is a slightly distored / compressed drum set, with more of a tribal rhythm / feel to them - almost as if they were 'marching troops' assisting in the forward movement of the piece.


All valid points Rykhaard,
Yeah, I toyed with the idea of ditching the second bassline altogether, then changed my mind, and now I think it would be a good idea to tread the middle ground by introducing it, then taking it away.
In some respects I like some of these parts "fighting" with each other, so I don't want to lose that entirely. I kinda like a bit of "clogged spectrum" sometimes. A bit of judicial taking of turns might be a good idea though.

The drums are kind of more than I wanted already! Laughing
Just a big tom keeping the time for the march, and a dude on snare to punch through the clanging of shields. I know it's not a major marching brigade, but these demons are more into ripping off heads than practicing their percussion. Laughing I find it difficult to walk the middle line with percussion, I'm usually all or nothing, and here I wanted it closer to nothing.

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:


All valid points Rykhaard,
Yeah, I toyed with the idea of ditching the second bassline altogether, then changed my mind, and now I think it would be a good idea to tread the middle ground by introducing it, then taking it away.


A couple of thoughts:

How about using it to introduce the theme of the deeper bassline? The quieter one partial of the theme; taken away for the background to develop further; brought back in for more of the theme and then replaced BY the deeper bassline?

Or having it start earlier than the deeper, having portions similar to what the deeper bassline is doing, but not as complex, letter the deeper one carry on with it's, full theme?

Quote:

In some respects I like some of these parts "fighting" with each other, so I don't want to lose that entirely. I kinda like a bit of "clogged spectrum" sometimes. A bit of judicial taking of turns might be a good idea though.


I've done similar in past compositions. In order to not have the clogging taking away from other instruments personalities, I've modulated the harmonic portions of one or both (or more) of those that are in the same frequency spectrums to allow the 'individual voices in the crowd, to be heard'. At times (when I knew what I was doing) it worked quite well.

Quote:

The drums are kind of more than I wanted already! Laughing


Sorry about that - I'm a HUGE drums freak. (Left over influences from the mid to later 70's Progressive Rock and Super-group type bands - carrying that influence on to this day ...... with Industrial and tribal influences thrown in.)
(Side note: just wait til I start adding (cough cough) 'drums' to my Lunetta works! Very Happy Twisted Evil )

Quote:

Just a big tom keeping the time for the march, and a dude on snare to punch through the clanging of shields. I know it's not a major marching brigade, but these demons are more into ripping off heads than practicing their percussion. Laughing I find it difficult to walk the middle line with percussion, I'm usually all or nothing, and here I wanted it closer to nothing.


O'tay! How about this then - simply it even further, in one way and more complex in another:

For the 'drums', just go with the Liquid HiHat. Basic as heck sounding - until you start modulating it's frequencies from other control voltages. This single module itself could be used to express a huge amount of emotional feelings, depending on how it's modulated, as well as the rhythms, played upon it.

Starting out as a quarter note, increasing it's resolution as the tune progresses. (Though - more so in accents, rather than constant: 1/4's, 1/8's, 1/16's or triplets there of - combinations, where the different divisions and / or triplets are used to accept key portions, along with harmonic modulations of the instrument.

Just more of my 'off-center' thoughts. Smile
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nah,
I'm not doing any major re-writes at this stage,
This is a Clearance Sale! Laughing
All lines of previously unfinished stock must GO!! Laughing

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
All lines of previously unfinished stock must GO!! Laughing


Consumed !

And liked it too, especially at /that/ price Shocked Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like it, very nice!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Production isn't my strong point, but I can't find anything wrong at all with this one. Nice heavy stuff. thumleft

/Stefan

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Jan,
Thanks Les,
I think I've decided what to do with the "spectral clogging" around the two basslines, it will take a little bit of fiddling, but I think it will open the piece up a lot. Thanks for those ideas Rykhaard.
I've also decided to change the drums slightly as well.
It's great to have you lot to bounce ideas off.
I really need to finish some of these tracks as they've been hanging around for way too long. Completing them and letting them go will hopefully clear my mind enough to get on with something else. Something positive.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oooh, a train set? Do tell! What's the design?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a very nice, deep piece, Uncle K. I'm not sure I'd change it, myself - hell, I'd be glad if I could get anything to that point.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Oooh, a train set? Do tell! What's the design?


Oh, it's basically just a folded loop with a few sidings.
I started collecting settrack pieces about 4-5 years ago before we left Sydney, then I started a long end to end village scene which was more about shunting operations and realism. Then a few months ago, the girls showed some interest in a basic loop we found at ecohouse for $40, so I decided to re-invent "my" layout (which has been sitting under the house) into something more "round and round" for them. It's got all the basic formwork done, at a stage where we can start some scenery. We're all having a break from it for a couple of weeks though.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
That's a very nice, deep piece, Uncle K. I'm not sure I'd change it, myself - hell, I'd be glad if I could get anything to that point.

Thanks Scott,
Your pieces tend to be a bit more minimal than this, but I think that is something to aspire to. It's amazing once you get a load of stuff happening at the same time, as Rykhaard pointed out, things easily become clogged and confused.
I have fixed a couple of things which should open this up quite a bit, so stay tuned, I'll re-post the new mix fairly soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am writing while listening.

wind, then the bass comes in, the melody needs some reverb, the dark army should be less melodic (the theme is too mellow for the dark side of the force), the chanting is cool, the bass lines are OK, it sounds a little '80s. it should be more Depeche Mode-ish to be really dark.
I are not a dark person, are you Question You would like to project this image of yourself but you are a nice guy Cool Shocked (forgive me, I'm mumbling Wink )

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Being in touch with your "dark side" doesn't mean you can't still be a "nice guy" Very Happy
That's all part of my questioning of the "Dark Army"
When I was watching the Orcs and Trolls in The Lord of the Rings, it struck me that some of them may have a wife and little orc kids at home hoping that "Daddy comes home safe tonight"
It kinda crosses over into the legacy of the Third Reich as well. I mean, in any horde of "evil bastards" there must be a reasonable number of them who see what they're doing as "just a job" or who are doing it under duress.
BTW, I think all these arguments are just as important when you look at the "Angelic" forces which the Dark Army are going up against. If they are intent on making a lot of orphaned Orc kids, how do they sleep at night?

FWIW The only times Depeche Mode sounded dark to me, they were fairly obviously trying just a little too hard. Don't get me wrong, I love heaps of the stuff they did. They just never came close to sounding as dark as say, Trent Reznor, or Marilyn Manson, or even Tom Waits. Shocked Laughing
I think expressing darkness, alone, with no tongue in cheek, light heartedness is a very hard thing to do. Pornography by the Cure comes to mind. But even that is highlighted with spots of flippancy. (and from Robert Smith's own account was fueled by enough LSD to put most people into a psych ward)

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