Author |
Message |
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
|
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:11 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Looks neat! It would be interesting to hear how this works out. What kind of performance do you expect from this - i.e. how many oscillators, filters etc you can put it in before the processor maxes out (I guess this is totally up to how Reaktor work - I haven't tried it out)? At least you have the long macro names sorted out.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:57 am Post subject:
|
|
|
I was never able to reach reaktor maximum limits, but currently my AMD 2200 single core CPU can handle a maximum of 400 sinewave oscillators mixed simultaneously using 44100 sample rate.
The G2 demo running the equivalent model on the same CPU, reaches the limit with 50 sinewaves.
Also note that reaktor uses floating point calculations which are heavier (but much better) than 24 bit integer calculations done in G2.
but my main objective is:
"To get around G2 limitations, still using compatible/equivalent modules."
The G2 interface is imensely more productive, but it has several limitations, that reaktor can solve.
To name a few...
-It is not a VSTi
-It does not have a sampling module
-It has only 4 Ins and 4 Outs
-It does not have the ability to open each module and make changes in graphic design and dsp algorithms.
-It does not have an oscilloscope module
-The VU meters are too small
-It has no numerical value metering display
-The filters have a maximum slope of 36 dB and the majority of them is limited to 24 dB
-The sequencer modules don´t have backward stepping
-The memory amount in the delay modules is too small
-The clock generator has no blinking led
-The logic 8-counter does not have backward stepping
-There is no macro capability (modules containing modules)
etc... |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
|
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:43 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Yeah, those are all valid points. I've been toying with the idea to make a Java/ChucK clone (Java for the GUI, ChucK for the sound). ChucK doesn't have all the tools to mimic everything that the G2 does, but it might still result on something usable. Not sure I'm going to invest in Reaktor for this, but it sure will be interest to see what you end up with.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
xav
Joined: Mar 21, 2005 Posts: 164 Location: paris
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 7
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:12 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Quite interesting! I'd like to try, and to hear... sure that depends on everyone computer and soundcard. Do you think it would also be possible with Pure Data? |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 814 Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:00 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Amazing _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
gomidas
Joined: Jul 09, 2004 Posts: 365 Location: La Ciotat, France
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 6
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:18 am Post subject:
|
|
|
dorremifasol wrote: | Amazing |
I agree. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
peterkadar
Joined: Jan 11, 2009 Posts: 152 Location: Toronto, Canada
G2 patch files: 1
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:58 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Wow, that's looking really good. I just put a payment down on Komplete 5, so soon I'll be in Reaktor land as well. Now I just need a new computer to run the whole thing, lol. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:12 am Post subject:
|
|
|
xav wrote: | I'd like to try, and to hear... |
Too soon for that...
Still in early stages of development and rigorous standardization.
A huge effort is necessary in this part, because a wrong decision at the atomic level can cost a fortune later, re-working the interface, if some atomic change is needed, after dozens of modules and hundreds of buttons were already done.
(The infamous "butterfly effect")
xav wrote: | sure that depends on everyone computer and soundcard. |
Chances are that...
In the next 2 years, it is going to depend on your *video* card also...
The recent nvidia CUDA library came to stay, and it allows +- 4000% floating point calculation performance increase for audio over a top quad core CPU, and i hope that NI product development manager don´t underestimate that fact.
xav wrote: | Do you think it would also be possible with Pure Data? |
Good question...
Not in a million years.
They made fatal mistakes at the atomic level, and to make such a high level, top layer interface, like that of G2 (which i consider brilliant), would require rebuilding PD entirely again, from scratch, using a totally different set of paradigms.
It´s like trying to build a pyramid, using bottom base blocks made of styrofoam, and upper blocks of concrete, no matter how much effort you put in trying to build it... the final result is catastrophic.
PD was built in such base.
Reaktor has some serious mistakes too, but far less fatal ones, if compared with that ugly, disorganized, confusing interface, with unexistent naming conventions, exposed math formulas at the top layer, absence of module conection labels and auto colored classification (logic, control, audio), mediocre black hairline patching wires, layer problems, etc...
Max/MSP is "cuter" but has the same fatal mistakes that PD has.
Both PD and Max/MSP need some serious reworking and a lot of research/development before i consider them viable products. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
peterkadar
Joined: Jan 11, 2009 Posts: 152 Location: Toronto, Canada
G2 patch files: 1
|
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
That would drive me crazy!!
But maybe I need to get out a little more
I need to listen to some good Reaktor demos and get hyped for when my copy of Komplete comes in!! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:13 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Complete layout remake in progress.
(Optimizing for 1280x1024 screen resolution.)
-plans for "half-module"
-reaktor crawls when using ARGB for module panels, underneath ARGB controls.
(bye bye for those nice rounded corners modules)
-Redimensioning the module aspect ratio
-Full migration from buttons to pictures. (zero frame width, zero bugs)
(it´s unbelievable how NI let that bug pass in such an often used control like button...[they forgot to add a frame attribute in the button])
-16 Grouped button array and 16 grouped led array in development for
the sequencer modules
-New, state-of-the-art apps used for rendering the buttons
-Rigorous grid standardization complete, number of pixels raised to 21 for the largest single grid element. (4 pixels reaktor grid limit x 5 +1)
-3d frame and line frame suck, bye bye for those long macro names
-Change from "even" pixel dimensioning for "odd" dimensioning to allow a single center pixel to be displayed
-Study for creating large truetype font text displays |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Chrono
Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 229 Location: NL
Audio files: 37
G2 patch files: 38
|
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:21 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Great concept! looking forward to try this out |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:06 am Post subject:
|
|
|
hmmm.... giving it a second look it seems too big
(3 columns fitting in a 1280x1024 screen doesn´t seem enough)
-studies for smaller atomic elements in progress
-plans for grid layout change
-techniques for overcoming the nasty reaktor 4x4 grid achieved
-techniques for discarding the nasty bugged reaktor buttons achieved
-sacrificing the 4 icon button model for first prototype
-studies for the 1 pixel alpha darkening border
-lots of prime number calculations |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
buzzr
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 360 Location: portland
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 1
|
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Looking forward to your progress! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
|
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi,
Looks interesting, how are you going to do the patch cables?
Cheers
Andy |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:04 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Patch Cables in the front panel layer are a responsibility of NI.
I´m counting on everybody that is following this topic here, to send lots of mails here:
"GUI Patch Cables!"
https://www.nativeinstruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82058
I hope that, if everybody applies heavy pressure in this subject, sending hundreds of emails on that NI topic, maybe those lazy NI programmers finally include this feature in version 6.
I´m counting on you to do this also.
Front panel patch cables, is a feature that had to be added a long time ago... I don´t understand why they didn´t.
I consider this absence of patch cables in Reaktor, a fatal problem. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:43 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Another important feature....
For example...
Today i have to do a revision on the big cyan OnOff button.
It has already propagated in several modules (seen above)
This means that when the new revision is done, i have to go back in every place that has this button and replace it for the new macro, and reposition the graphical object with the mouse again.
This implies that if you don´t make a rock solid development in the lowest level atomic elements, later, when some it´s used in hundreds of places, the re-working process multiplies enormously.
It shoudn´t be this way, a feature for having macro clones is needed, to allow the changes in those elements to be done a single time, the same way that is done in programming languages. (if you change a procedure, all the calls for it will reflect the changes)
This is not as serious as missing patch cables, because at least there is a solution, going inside every module and pasting/repositioning the revised macro. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
bantri
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|