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Inventor's Inventions
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Les! This next show is wonderful news! I really appreciate this!

I went into my soon to be getting out of electrical components electronic store today and bought what CMOS 4000 series IC's they had left... Need to get some others though... but getting equipped!

Cant wait for your show!

... suddenly I have a reason to live again! Very Happy

-StEVe-
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent idea, Les! Maybe I will pick up a breadboard and parts for my 12 yo who seems to be getting interested in circuits.
--Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
It's really freaky man!


Cool

Turn on the machines!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I drew up a schematic for anyone who wants to follow along during the show, attached below.

Les


QuadOscLunetta.pdf
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The Quad Osc Lunetta Schematic

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all!

Built the above schematic on a breadboard... stayed up all night with Inventors help and now have the most incredible sounds filling my home! Thanks Les! Highly recommend this to anyone!

DO NOT MISS THE NEXT SHOW!

Soon as I can stop being mesmerized by this device, or the 9V battery runs out, I'll get around to sleeping then recording some sounds... and posting!

Once again, thanks!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks minus! Here is the Bill of Materials for anyone who will be buying parts.

Les


QuadOscLunettaBOM.txt
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Les, glad you're doing this show! I posted that draft of the Lunetta document on the forum, hopefully it can help your show and get people interested in the idea.
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Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ty droffset! There is so much to absorb here! I've created circuit two, a boolean sequencer Lunetta. Photo below.

Les


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: lunettatics Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey les, looking forward to this show. Very Happy

You probably already thought about it but you could do a whole series, or at least a couple of shows.
Discovering different chips on each show and posting the schematics/pin-layouts beforehand on the forum (like you did),
so listeners can build and experiment along wih the show.
Maybe you can even get some results back that you can play during the show.

(btw,.. is that big thingy on your breadboard a speaker ?)
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello again Inventor!

Just as I was typing this out I noticed PHOBos has mentioned much of what I was... I too was thinking a section on your Inventions show where you talk about a particular IC would be really good. I was chatting to Psyingo earlier about Lunetta's and he was telling me all about the 4011 NAND gate. Perhaps a whole show about one IC might be stretching it too far, but a small section on a particular IC; its history, construction, overview of pins, applications etc would be really useful! And there are so many IC's out there! This could be a valuable resource...

And to anyone out there who hasn't done so already: go to the radio archives and give Les a listen! Well worth the visit!

By the way Les, your breadboards look immaculate! Very neat! Really curious about this Boolean Sequencer you have mentioned before...

-StevE-

Last edited by -minus- on Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the kind words guys. Yes I'm thinking of doing a series of shows on this topic. There will be at least one or two and hopefully more. I'll talk about the chips used and tell you how to get your own datasheets from the web. Yes the big thingy is a flat high-impedance piezo speaker (DigiKey part P11124-ND) that I bought years ago. The next show is a week from tommorrow so there's time to buy parts if you're so inclined...

Les

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just got done drawing up a schematic and generating a parts list for the Boolean Sequencer Lunetta, which is project #2. I may cover it some in the first show, I dunno. It is actually two separate Boolean Sequencer Lunettas running from a common 555 clock. I like the second one better but they are both good.

Les


BooleanSequencerLunettaBOM.txt
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Bill of Materials for Boolean Sequencer Lunetta

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BooleanSequencerLunettaSCH.pdf
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Schematic for Boolean Sequencer Lunetta

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, I have all the parts for the Boolean Sequencer on hand except the 40106. (I'll probably sub in 4093s since I have many.)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Droffset, if you use 4093's then you can gate them with the AND gate outputs, leaving all four inputs of the AND gates for connection to the counter bits. It's just a different approach. I did it this way because I had no 4093's.

Les

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah that's a cool idea, I was just going to wire the two 4093 NAND inputs together to make inverters.

Lots of good stuff to try, can't wait for the show.

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Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is an updated photo with Beginner's Lunetta projects one and two completed. Note that there is more stuff on the right side of Project #2 (the larger breadboard).

Les


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This show was the first beginner's Lunetta show. I started out with a jam on the Quad Osc Lunetta, talked about how to use a breadboard with lots of details like how to trim wires, a tour of the schematic, how a breadboard works, etc. and then finished up with a preview of next week's circuit. It was a pretty good show so give it a listen - especially if you like Lunettas!

Les


Inventors Inventions 20100302 1656.mp3
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The first beginner's Lunetta lecture show

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Summary and remarks on "4-oscillator-lunetta" show Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill "State_Machine" came into the chat during the show 5 minutes before the ending.
Well, I missed it completely, tuning into Bill's soldering musicians radio stream half way.

Summary of information, unfinished.

On Inventor's breadboard (from Digikey.com)

1M thumbwheel pots, a value often used in Lunetta's , especially with 40106 oscillators, costing $1.25 , something like that.
---------------------

Inventor's Breadboard Speaker

The flat speaker: ("pricy but good quality") is from digikey.com, where Les buys most of his parts.

It's a piezo speaker with Frequency Range 150Hz ~ 100kHz. It's high impedance, meaning it can be driven directly from an opamp, or even directly from the CMOS

outputs.
After soldering two little pieces of 24G wire it's great for breadboarding says Les, and during the show it was miked and the sound directly sent to the stream.
I noticed no difference to my 4-osc-lunetta heard directly through headphones.

Digikey Part number P11124-ND

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=p11124-nd

Manufacturer (panasonic ) Part Number: WM-R57A
--------------

On the demo previously posted the 4-osc-lunetta was processed by e-ChucK, audio software Inventor actively promotes/supports at one of the EM forums.

-----------
Next the show discusses reading the 4-osc-lunetta schematic:

The four triangles with the little circle on the right side are the invertors.
Each invertor (oscillator) has a capacitor to ground at the input, and a potentiometer between it's output and input ( the "feedback loop").

There's a fixed resistor in the feedback path in series with the pot. Pitch rises with lower resistance. And higher resistance lowers pitch .
The 4.7K resistor thus limits the upper range, preventing the pitch to reach inaudible frequencies. (adjust to taste)

These extremely simple oscillators are used quite a lot in Lunetta's.

Next: the Voltage Followers.

An opamp with the signal to it's positive input and it's output connected to the negative input is voltage follower. Two of those are at the upper right of the

schematic.

The voltage followers are buffers used to reliably drive all kind of external amps , line in's etc, protecting your lunetta circuit and your external equipment from

harm or signal degradation.

The Square Wave

Digital / binary logic chips like CMOS produce squarewaves. A squarewave alternates between ground and the supply voltage. Inventor lets you hear the topmost

oscillator (connected to the top voltage follower) to demo a square wave, the most common waveform generated by Lunetta's.

The R/2R ladder

This network of resistors combines electrical signals together with a binary weighting.
It is a DAC (digital to analog convertor).
The DAC is actually just a mixer. The top oscillator is called the MSB (most significent bit), having the highest level. Each next oscillator is attenuated to half of the

voltage of the more significant bit higher up the circuit. Thus the oscillator at the bottom of the schematic outputs the LSB (least significat bit), having the lowest

output.

Different combinations of the 4 bits (one from each oscillator) through this R/2R ladder (aka R/2R network) yields 16 different voltage values to be sent to the output.

Spares

In the lower left of the schematic are the unused portions of the IC's. Unused CMOS inputs are connected to ground, and unused opamp sections' positive inputs

connect to ground while their outputs connect to the negative input.

Why? It's not always nescessary, but Les calls it "good practice" It prevents unwanted oscillations.

comment: Modular Lunetta's often use in/outputs with some patchbay system to reconfigure. This means sometimes sections are used, and sometimes not. So you

have temporarily unused CMOS inputs, but you don't want to connect those to ground, it would disable them permanently. What you can do is connect them to

ground "partially". This is done by connecting CMOS inputs to ground THROUGH A RESISTOR. I do this with all CMOS inputs as standard method now to leave all

options open.

Connecting (tying) to ground through a resistor is called "tie down" or "pull down" (with a pulldown resistor). Connecting with a resistor to the + voltage is called

"pull up".

What value?
Rych calls using 100K "the golden standard". Uncle krunkus mentioned using 20K. Blue_Hell mentioned in the chat between 10k and 1M can be used.

(end comment)

About the supply

Ok, I've covered the show up to 27.47

Maybe I find the time to finish this later, maybe not.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the notes electri-fire, that was fun to read! Next show: two Boolean Sequencer Lunettas will be discussed in detail.

Les

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice show Les, Listened to it yesterday.

First I build the Quad Osc. Lunetta (QLO) on a breadboard and then started the show. Since it started with the sounds of the QLO I could jam along with it Smile.
I didn't have any 1M potentiometers though (only 5M but that didn't really work well) so I used LDR's. I never used opamps as voltage followers (at least not for audio) so thnx for the tip! ow, and I love the stereo output.

While listening I did some experiments and one of them was using a sequencer with LED outputs to control the LDR's. I got some really nice rhythms and sounds out of it. Next thing I did was making a second R2R ladder and connected the right channel (or the left,..ehm,. the one that was directly connected to the oscillator) to it. Then I connected the LSB to the MSB of the first R/2R ladder and the MSB to the LSB of the first R/2R. I used the 2 spare inverters to make 2 more oscillators to drive the remaing inputs of the second R/2R. great stereo sound!

Question Something I would like to know more about is protection of chips in lunettas. I mean, with all the patch cables it's easy to make a mistake and connect 2 or more outputs together, something CMOS chips usually don't really like. I think the easiest way is to use diodes on the outputs and pull up/down resisters on the inputs. Another way could be just connecting resistors in series with the ouputs (like 1K).

looking forward to the next show!

btw. The lunetta sounds where pretty loud so if possible turn the volume down a bit. The mic level was fine.
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Inventor
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's great, PHOBoS, you really did some interesting things with your Lunetta. I'm glad you liked the show!

Les

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Quad Oscillator Lunetta Mods Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
I didn't have any 1M potentiometers though (only 5M but that didn't really work well) so I used LDR's. /.../ Next thing I did was making a second R2R ladder and connected the right. channel (or the left,..ehm,. the one that was directly connected to the oscillator) to it. Then I connected the LSB to the MSB of the first R/2R ladder and the MSB to the LSB of the first R/2R. I used the 2 spare inverters to make 2 more oscillators to drive the remaing inputs of the second R/2R. great stereo sound!


Cool. I built the QOL on a piece of perfboard. Lack of 1M pots had me use 250K, with 0.47 uF caps. Works fine for audio range.
I've been poking at the circuit with other components, and one of my LEDs between pin 7 and 2 of the opamp was following the levels of the HR2R DAC very nicely. Makes a nice randomish LFO. LFO speed is not always predictable, but a multitude of waveforms are available.
Next time, for LFO function I'd like to use some bigger capacitors.

I was thinking to drive the spare invertor sections with this LED, but unfortunately I have misplaced my LDR's.
Also the spare opamp sections want LDR's for sequenced filtering. Mine do.
Anyway, with this simple two IC Lunetta a lot can be done.
The opamps are an addition I'll definitely be using more.
And I want more DACs as well. Very inspiring fun little schematic.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, about the LED, maybe I should mention, I had 1k resistors in the feedbackpath of the opamp.
That's why I said my LED is between pin 7 and 2 specifically. With + side to pin 7.
Response varied with different LEDs, your milage may vary, as they say, but worth giving it a try.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here was tonight's show about the Boolean Sequencer Lunetta went really good until i ran out of stuff to say! Then I just talked about different stuff and hooked up lunettas and made music, ending with a little jam session. It was fun to do and folks in the chat enjoyed it, so have a listen!

Les


Inventors Inventions 20100316 1754.mp3
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Inventor's Inventions Show

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't believe I'm posting this show. It was pure chaos! I woke up an hour late and spent half an hour doing soundchecks, but you'll skip all that and this recording has me playing around with KS boards in what I'm told turned out to be a pretty good show after all. So enjoy!

Les


Inventors Inventions 20100413 1927.mp3
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A wacky II show!

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