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frenchyinmunich
Joined: Jun 23, 2009 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:54 am Post subject:
Buchla 259 PCB size |
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Hello,
I am ... trying to build a 259.
Does someone here knows the exact size of the main board PCB?
Best regards,
F |
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:36 am Post subject:
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It's 2 boards. And they're huge. Basicly the entire panel x 2.
Though 1 boards holds the pots and some other stuff (trimmers and some circuits).
I'll see if I can take some pictures tonight. _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:
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check |
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frenchyinmunich
Joined: Jun 23, 2009 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:50 am Post subject:
Buchla 259 PCB size |
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Thank you both of of you,
Well, I would apreciate to get the size exact of the main board.
I mean, this one with the vactrol.
For, sure, if some of you could give me more picture of the control(poties and knobs board), why not a scan, it would be perfect.
All the best,
f |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:55 am Post subject:
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The 259 requires many trace cuts and other kludges in order to work- my tech explained this at some length. It's a big project, not a do-it-alone unless you are significantly skilled at electronics. I'm nowhere near able to do one myself.
A few photos which might help, but I don't have the dimensions:
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/mpeake/sale/
This one was sold a while ago, sorry. _________________ We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener
"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog |
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forbin
Joined: Jan 29, 2009 Posts: 120 Location: Fremantle, Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject:
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There are also some Pictures of Mark Verbos making up a PCB from some blank boards on Flickr. See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/markverbos/414091774/
There are also high resolution TIFF files of the VCO PCB here:
http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Buchla/
I contemplated just trying to make the PCB's from the scans. I did a bit of work with Photoshop and got reasonable images that I could have used to make the PCB's -- unfortunately there are a few parts that are just not available for almost any price... so i decided to do an original PCB layout -- then apply fixes -- then change the parts to bits that I can get... So... I pulled them into the PCB tool, then using the original as the background and then started entering the schematic and trying to reverse out the entire thing. It is a LOT of work... It is very much on the back burner at the moment as I am just finishing another clone of a famous VCO and I have also done the MS50 VCF which I will post soon... It would be fun and just entering some of the schematics and searching for equivalent (well functionally anyway) parts has taught me a lot. I think if I did eventually come up with a more modern variant I would be tempted to loose the auto-tune as it makes the entire thing extremely complicated and layout a total nightmare... |
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frenchyinmunich
Joined: Jun 23, 2009 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:48 am Post subject:
Buchla 259 PCB size |
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Hello,
I started as well like you, with the kevin Lightner pictures.
Which component gave you troubles?
The parts which can be also to forget are the digital control as well.
I am curious to see the state of your work.
All the best,
f |
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:03 am Post subject:
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The LF13331 and the 2N3958 is hard to find.
I think everybody has at one point in their DIY career thought: Damn, I should clone the 259.. _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:14 am Post subject:
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zthee wrote: | The LF13331 and the 2N3958 is hard to find.
.. |
Shitloads at utsource,so its not these parts that gonna stop us... |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:56 am Post subject:
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Totally agree. I mean, if you're gonna go through the hassle of designing a new PCB for it - why not use available parts? _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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frenchyinmunich
Joined: Jun 23, 2009 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:07 am Post subject:
Buchla 259 size |
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Hello,
Well, concerning the 2n3958, there is not any problem to get it.
I think that we should all together concentrate our energy to rebuilt one.
I started as well from the Kevin Hi res. pictures to built a board.
I need to know the original size to retouch the track precisily.
Teknik did a nice PCB for the waveshaper. I don't remember what he used,
but apparently, the "only" difficult component to find for the wave shaper would have been the 2n3958.
I think, that, I could reproduce the PCB and first, for exemple, mount the waveshaper section, exatcly with the Buchla component.
After this, try it with any other VCO. For exemple from my side, a Kobol.
Check the result, compare with result from people having here the original one, and go forward like that to another part of the circuit.
I don't say that's not difficult. from my side I never touched and see a real buchla. So, that's where my problem is.
All the best,
f |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:37 am Post subject:
Re: Buchla 259 size |
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frenchyinmunich wrote: | Hello,
I started as well from the Kevin Hi res. pictures to built a board.
I need to know the original size to retouch the track precisily.
f |
Hey just import the pic of the pcb into illustrator re-scale it to an ic component and u have the exact dimesions of the pcb.
The wavemultiplier will work with any vco,but u need a proper (perfect) sine for best result,also u need the right level as the harmonics comes from a pre distorted signal,so depending of the distortion (level) the rest of the circuits behaves ,the manual timbre range will also be different,its identical like the serge wavemultipliers where i have put a pot at the input so i have precize control of the level so it match any sine level and is even more importand if u use mix in a second signal. |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:21 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Totally agree. I mean, if you're gonna go through the hassle of designing a new PCB for it - why not use available parts?
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not only that trouble, but also prototyping and testing |
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forbin
Joined: Jan 29, 2009 Posts: 120 Location: Fremantle, Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:55 am Post subject:
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yeah i also looked at the Analog Devices switches and using the That Corporation dual PNP/NPN for the AD8xx pairs -- the plan sort of was:
1) get the schematics right
2) get the PCB to sort of agree with the scans
3) remove the cruft
4) replace the hard to get bits
5) make PCB
6) debug
7) iterate on all of above...
There is an allure of the Buchla designs though-- they are very different from the Moog/Perlman/Rossum/et.el designs and probably hold some mystique... Who else would call a module "Source of Uncertainty"?
Having said all that I am probably only 10% of the way there and have been sidetracked down other avenues... |
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:25 am Post subject:
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Why not just draw the schematics in Eagle and then make the boards?
It'd be 3 double sided boards, 1 with the mod. osc. 1 with the principle osc. And 1 with the waveshaper + vca stuff. Board size 100mm x 160mm? _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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ericcoleridge
Joined: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 889 Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:56 am Post subject:
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Peake wrote: | The 259 requires many trace cuts and other kludges in order to work |
in other words, even w pcb, and parts, one does not have a 259 unfortunately. |
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frenchyinmunich
Joined: Jun 23, 2009 Posts: 113 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:11 am Post subject:
In other words |
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Hello Ericco,
I think that the guy who had the most hard work was Buchla himself.
f |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject:
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forbin wrote: | I have also done the MS50 VCF which I will post soon... |
Great! I have a CA3019 reserved for just such an emergency!
All parts in the 259 are pretty readily available, excepting the AD281, which is easily replaced by the Linear Systems LS351. There was one other substitution as well, I forget the AD part number.
I'd really like the control/timbre and other sections from the 259 made into a project so that one might use any pair of oscillators of their choice...basically, a DIY PCB of the 259 minus the remote control and oscillators. _________________ We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener
"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog |
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forbin
Joined: Jan 29, 2009 Posts: 120 Location: Fremantle, Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject:
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Hi Peake
Sorry to disappoint... i engineered out the CA3019 -- couldn't get one! I used a That Corporation quad NPN instead (only really need 4 matched diodes doe the bridge) -- it has actually surprised me with how well it works!
Back to the 259 -- have you had any luck with Linear Systems? I have found that the shipping dwarfs the item cost by about x30 so as to make it not really a consideration... I think that you are right about the modulation/control/timbre aspects of the VCO -- as a "perfect" clone I'm not really sure it would be worth the effort but as for picking some of the more novel aspects of it for use in or with other VCO's it may be more useful. I am slowly expanding the bits I am simulating with LTSpice and I am now comfortable enough with its behaviour that I will use the results to go straight to a PCB -- well worth learning... |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject:
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LS have distributors who are not that expensive, so far as I know...they also have a dual trannie to sub out the 2N3958, which is also used in the Buchla 291 dual BPF (and which is supposed to have a pretty high HFE to avoid distorting). LS have substitutes for many unobtainable parts...
Again, a modernized 259 would be nice, especially without those troubling components...but you have to love its sound. Definitely smaller-sounding than the preceding 100 and 200 dual oscillators...which is why I'd love to be able to use the 259 control/timbre section with oscillators such as that. Even people who prefer amazingly accurate oscillators would find a vast array of possibilities in such a configuration. AM is a rather under-rated process...very useful for generating musically accurate/tracking overtones, as opposed to ring modulation. You can do nice electric piano tines that way, etc.
EricC...seems that way. Luckily, there are a few highly qualified Buchla techs who are experienced in this matter.
No CA3019? Hnf! I like the THAT chips, good choice! Looking forward to your board/artwork! _________________ We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener
"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog |
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dar303
Joined: Jul 15, 2007 Posts: 97 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:13 am Post subject:
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I did this mod to a couple of 259's, has been working perfecly for 4-5 yr.
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phdinfunk
Joined: Jun 04, 2008 Posts: 119 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject:
259 Autotune Subject description: How does that work? |
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I'm curious, I have no idea.... is it some kind of P.I.D. loop on an IC or something? I'm just sitting here trying to think of how an "autotune" system could work..... is it dependent on the 300 series computer system to make it happen? |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:47 am Post subject:
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the autotune function on the 259 is indeed a function for the module to be used with another system,on itself on the module its useless |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:54 am Post subject:
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Nothing to check in this post,
In fact when a post is old enough some information get deleted by moderators,its happening in plenty of topics i discovered.
Crazy,so they log what they thing they should delete,then wait some time and then edit all those posts. WTF? |
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