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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject:
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Progress!
Today I finally got sound. Seems like the ADSRs and NCAs are working, as well as the NCOs (mostly) and polyphony also seems to work. Gotta work out the bug that is causing the pitch to be the same regardless of the note-on message sent... _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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Dan Lavin
Joined: Nov 09, 2006 Posts: 649 Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:18 am Post subject:
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That is good news. I'd be happy with a 4-voice 8-op FM synth! Good luck Scott! _________________ Synth DIY since 1977! |
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject:
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Some progress - finally.
For some reason yet to be determined, many of the RAMs that I tried to infer were being optimized away as "identical". I could see no reason for this to happen in the source code, so as a troubleshooting step, I rewrote them as forced instantiations of RAMs. All of a sudden, the freaky behavior ended and I'm getting sound now.
More testing reveals other problems, but I believe these are just "oops - why did I do that?" kind of stuff.
Once I get it working fully and correctly, I will post some sounds. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject:
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Looks like the chaining is working. I've been playing with 3 operator sounds so far. Lots of fun screwing around with different settings. Lots of different sounds available.
Once I'm satisfied that everything is working, I think I'll just turn Audacity on and play with the patch editor and post that. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject:
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Here's a couple of 3-op samples. More later.
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A short sample using the synth in 3 operator mode |
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8op_001.mp3 |
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487.01 KB |
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1253 Time(s) |
Description: |
a sort of Krell music thing here... |
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8op_002.mp3 |
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454.76 KB |
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1278 Time(s) |
_________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:19 am Post subject:
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Aha! So that's where you've been
Sounds like erm .. FM some powerful sounds! _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:50 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Aha! So that's where you've been |
uh-oh - I've been found out!
Blue Hell wrote: | Sounds like erm .. FM some powerful sounds! |
I still need to do more testing, I haven't yet even tried 4 operators (except to get some rather un-useful noise). It seems to be basically working. I can create multiple sound generators within an 8 operator chain, I've tried four 2 operator chains and it sounds correct, so the feed-to-next-operator logic is working.
Now I need to get the operator zero self feedback working (this is a DX7 feature). This is a special case, so it will take some more thinking (and banging and swearing).
I want to, but haven't approached other sorts of odd operator connections, such as 2 operator outputs fed to an adder, the sum output modulating another operator.
And then there's the UI... Nothing about FM is intuitive, so making the UI intuitive or even just not obfuscatively confusing will be a challenge as well.
So far, this much logic is using only 55% of the slices in a Spartan-3A 400K equivalent gate FPGA. There are also 11 multipliers unused in the design, so there's more that can be done in parallel if necessary. The state machine part that computes the voices can actually be 2 clocks longer than I currently have it, so there's yet more room. The target FPGA is the smallest and least expensive one I have. The board that this is running on costs $50. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:04 am Post subject:
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Yesterday I finished the operator zero feedback path. I have never heard a DX7, at least not that I know of, I'm sure some commercial pieces of music have used them, but I am not aware of any good examples - especially examples which use this DX7 feature. So I am at a disadvantage in determining what it should do and what it should sound like.
What I hear while testing is not what I expected, and I'm not sure of my expectations. For the settings of feedback amount that I've played with, I hear what I can best describe as portamento on very low notes and almost no effect on high notes with stronger portamento as I play lower and lower - to the point where it sounds rather silly.
After cogitating about the circuit, I can see why the effect might be more intense at lower frequencies - this is because the amount of feedback is not scaled by the "base" frequency setting of the operator. This reminds me of trying to use a linear pitch CV with pitch modulation where the bass notes have a wild effect and the treble notes have little to no effect.
Does anyone here know if the DX7 scaled the feedback amount to track the note's base frequency? _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject:
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Well, I've done a lot of work on this to troubleshoot a set of problems. The detuning of low notes turned out to be a shortcut I tried to take that didn't work as I thought it should. I found this by simplifying the design such that each voice was a single self feedback operator.
I want to play with other algorithms to create the feedback path for this, currently the synth can do morphs between near-sawtooth and sine wave with simple feedback. This is probably going to evolve into a new synth design. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:
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This little experiment seems to be sprouting the beginnings of a new synth, I added some ADSRs to control amplitude and modulation and I can get some interesting sounds. "Brass" would be my description.
Still haven't experimented with other feedback algorithms, that's next. I wanted to first determine if it was worth my time at all. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject:
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JovianPyx wrote: | This little experiment seems to be sprouting the beginnings of a new synth, I added some ADSRs to control amplitude and modulation and I can get some interesting sounds. "Brass" would be my description.
Still haven't experimented with other feedback algorithms, that's next. I wanted to first determine if it was worth my time at all. |
Whhhhaaat?? I can't hear anything! |
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject:
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JovianPyx wrote: | Ok, here's a small sample of the patch I'm messing with right now.
This synth has only an oscillator and waveshaper with EG per voice. There is no filter in this design. |
Whoa. By chance - have you any higher octaves available for play? That, having been created from your mind - wow.
If coming - I can't wait to hear more'n 1 oscillator doing it. |
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject:
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Higher octaves - yes, I used only the lower two because they sounded more brassy on this patch...
Further development will depend on whether I can come up with other feedback algorithms that sound different.
Even a fairly small FPGA could probably do 16 voices with 4 of these oscillator feedback FM things per voice, so yeah, probably really fat brass is possible. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject:
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JovianPyx wrote: | The difference is more than subtle, so I will try some other things too. The linear feedback results in a near sawtooth wave (at max modulation) and the squared feedback results in what looks like a lowpass filtered square wave. |
If you square the modulator, you get a sine with twice the frequency (and a dc offset and half the level). So you are effectively changing the MC Ratio to 2:1.
Nice feature. |
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, I was just thinking sine squared identity too, and it seems that the technique bolsters the second harmonic.
I've now thought that since I have sawtooth, triangle and square waves readily available, there's no reason I couldn't try substituting those waveforms for the modulation signal. The audio output would still be taken from the sine table, but modulation could come from any of saw, tri and square or summed combos of more than one waveform. Whatever the modulation waveform, the system will always allow morphing to a sine wave which gives an effect similar to a lowpass filter. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat? corruptio optimi pessima
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject:
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JovianPyx wrote: | The difference is more than subtle, so I will try some other things too. The linear feedback results in a near sawtooth wave (at max modulation) and the squared feedback results in what looks like a lowpass filtered square wave. |
It took me a while to ply my ears up off of the floor, for BOTH patches! I know part of it's the envelope over time in the structure of the tonality, but both of them especially in the higher pitches were BEAUTIFUL sounding patches!
The 2nd one especially caught me ears as it almost immediately reminded me of the ancient Kawai K1 (additive) synth patch 'Jazz Harp' which to this day is STILL, one of my most favourite synth sounds, ever. Very percussive and beautifully melodic. The only mild difference with your 2nd patch, is just a tad longer time in Release. Otherwise very close in sounding ... very beautiful.
Wow! |
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JovianPyx
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject:
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JovianPyx wrote: | Why thank you Rich. Heh, I'm cheating a little because this thing is polyphonic and I like to set the ADSRs to let it ring out - and the ADSRs I use now all have selectable linear or exponentially decaying release.
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Cheating or not - I were dang well impressed!
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I just tested the new modulation waveforms. Mixed results... Triangle modulation sounds similar to sine modulation, nice sound. Sawtooth modulation is raucus sounding until set to very low modulation level, square is "buzzy". Phase will make a difference here I think. If I allow changing the phase relationship between the output sine function and the modulator function... I am imagining modulating with a square wave pi/2 out of phase with the sine function.
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Uh oh ... stepping out beyond my 4 basic functions of math (having forgotten almost everything else, from almost 30 yrs. ago. )
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And another sample, some fiddling using sawtooth modulation, you will likely note the modulation effects... |
Jaw dropping! Some wondeful melodies themselves coming from what almost appeared to be, something close to a Harpsichord (my most favourite instrument, period, since 1981) with extra release time, through a mild phase shifter.
All together a wonderful combination! Providing a wonderful almost 'warmth' to the digital world. |
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