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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Musical Interfaces
Ribbon keyboard
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nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Ribbon keyboard
Subject description: Each key is a separate ribbon controller
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Would anyone (beside me) find it useful to have a controller keyboard which has, on every key, a ribbon controller? In other words, each key IS a ribbon controller, in addition to velocity and aftertouch. I'm thinking of trying to build something like this. Or has this already been done?
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potar



Joined: Nov 05, 2009
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Location: Long Beach, Ca

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: sounds neat Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a interesting idea. I would love to see/hear a prototype.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the Haken continuum fingerboard sounds like what you are looking for Very Happy
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nobody



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is VERY cool. Too bad I don't have 5 grand.

I guess I won't be patenting this idea, then. Razz I'd still like to see this done in a standard keyboard configuration rather than a smooth surface.
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elmood



Joined: Sep 05, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been playing around a lot with Softpot sensors from Spectra Symbol and have a guitar product out now that uses them. Although they're $10-15 each, perhaps a smallish keyboard would be not too expensive.

I could also see this be used as a programmable slide-pot for controlling MIDI CC or modular CVs. I bought a 750mm one and connected it to my modular pitch input and it was REALLY fun to play! Perhaps a combination of long ribbon for pitch (which are not too expensive) and some shorter ones for expression (using your other hand) would be along the lines of what you're looking for.

What do you think?
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slabman



Joined: Sep 01, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

See this interview with Bob Moog - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may98/articles/bob.html


Quote:
As a guitar player, I've experimented with MIDI guitars, which are pretty imperfect things, but the one thing I do like is being able to apply different degrees of vibrato at different speeds to different notes. Is that something that could be translated into keyboard terms, for example by using a key with a position-sensitive surface?

"I've built a few keyboards like that and they were described in the Computer Music Journal maybe six or seven years ago. I began with a regular wooden keyboard and then put a touch sensitive coating on top of each key so that the key was position-sensitive to where you placed your finger in two dimensions. That's very interesting, but it's also expensive to do. There are various ways of approaching that problem in engineering terms, but the real difficulty is getting musicians to study it -- to put behind them the techniques they've learned and to try something new."
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slabman



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having thought about it a little more, there might be a halfway house between the Haaken and a conventional keyboard.

Imagine a keyboard action that's more like that of a PC keyboard than the traditional hinged piano-type mechanism. There would be two key contacts, one at the front and one at the rear of each key. Measuring the time difference between the contacts closing would tell you if the back or front of the key came down first - the size of the difference should give you the finger position. It wouldn't be a continuous measurement though - it would only give a reading on impact.
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nobody



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How about a series of contacts under each key? It would be a quantised movement, but if the contacts were small enough and close enough together, it could be pretty smooth.
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Argitoth



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested in a keyboard like this. I'd want to be able to move my finger up and down for pitch vibrato and use pressure for changing filter frequency.

I imagine that implementing velocity would require a circuit that detects the initial pressure (so you slam a key, it detects the highest voltage) and holds it.
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nobody



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Initial velocity would work as it already normally does. I just want, like you, to be able to move up and down on the keys while pressing them and have that do something.
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Argitoth



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CREATE THIS KEYBOARD AND SELL IT TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I NEED THIS.
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nobody



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing Laughing Laughing

OK, you'll be my first customer. Cool

I'm full of ideas, but I'm not an experienced DIY'er, but still... at some point I'd love to build this. Maybe I'll make that my next project after I finish building the computer I just picked up.
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mush



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, for one, you got to choose aftertouch as a monophonic controller. Midi only have implementation for one polyphonic controller - poly-aftertouch, so that is what you would need to use with the ribbons. The regular aftertouch would have to be routed to some regular CC. So even though the idea is fine and dandy, it won't make much fun compared to a polyaftertouch keyboard in more than playing style. To get around it you could use OSC and program your own synthesizer to accept these messages. Or you could route each note to a separate midi-channel and set up as many instances of a softsynth as you have keys.

I have a DIY-multi ribbon controller with pressure sensitivity. I am using a Nord Modular G2 which I can set up to accept the midi-data in the way I want through complex programming and in that way be able to get two polyphonic continious controllers. I only use 12 position sensors though and setting up the same for a full range, 88key midi controller would use 88 different CCs + poly-aftertouch. But as you can only play 10 keys at once, you could build some scanner and get away with 10 CCs, but it would need to be connected in some way with the note on/off data so you could use Max/msp to sort it out in a working way.

BTW, I hate the limitations of midi...
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Argitoth



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I HATE MIDI TOO! If you make a ribbon controller it should send out voltage, but if it sends both that's even better.
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