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Haken Continuum now has built-in sound engine
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Haken Continuum now has built-in sound engine
Subject description: and its really powerful
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http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Continuum/html/intsounds/isIntro.html

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The Continuum Fingerboard contains an audio DSP that acts as a powerful internal sound engine delivering analog and digital audio outputs. The Internal Sounds are specially designed and are idiosyncratic to the Continuum Fingerboard, in the sense that they take full advantage of the Continuum's three dimensional polyphonic playing surface. The Internal Sounds are implemented using a variety of synthesis techniques including FM, physical modeling, timbre morphing, pitch shifting, additive synthesis, waveshaping, convolution, and classical synthesis.
The specialized sound set for the Continuum Fingerboard were prototyped by Edmund Eagan in Kyma, Symbolic Sound's fantastic sound design, exploration, and performance environment. The prototypes were then hand coded by Lippold Haken for the Continuum Fingerboard's DSP.


I liked Edmund Eagan's Continuum demos the best as he had the most interesting sounds and played them expressively. Great to see he was involved in the development of this sound set.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scaringly awesome Exclamation
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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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matrix



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was under the impression it always had a built in sound engine? It not always, then for some time now. I have a few older posts alluding to it:

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2006/01/haken-audio-continuum-impressions.html

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/search/label/Haken

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

matrix wrote:
I was under the impression it always had a built in sound engine? It not always, then for some time now. I have a few older posts alluding to it:

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2006/01/haken-audio-continuum-impressions.html

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/search/label/Haken


Apparently the internal sound engine was introduced in 2009. Most reports I've seen and heard prior to 2009 were of the Continuum as a controller for Kyma or analog synths (via control voltage interface). It could be used for MIDI control too, but that so boring compared to CV or the proprietary protocol used for controlling Kyma.

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matrix



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks. I just checked with someone that has one. He said it's been 2 to 3 years so 2009 falls into that time range.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is there a distibutor for these in Europe? I remember seeing a German company but can't find it now...
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Muied Lumens wrote:
Is there a distibutor for these in Europe? I remember seeing a German company but can't find it now...


A contact in Berlin is given here:
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Continuum/html/pricing/Delivery.html

I always liked the Kyma concept, but it's great that the Continuum now comes with those Kyma-developed sounds self-contained at no additional cost.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I really love all that I've seen about these.....EXCEPT THE PRICE!

A half-sized controller with a hard case and CV converter runs $4,555. That's a significant amount of change. For people performing a lot, it would be well worth it, but for most of us that's just a bit too high.

$4,555 would get you a pretty killer Moon Modular sequencer set up:

1x M511AC Quad Voltage Controlled Gate Delay
1x M552 Quad CV to Midi Converter
1x M553 Midi to Clock Module
1x M554 Octal Clock Divider
1x M564 Sequential Divider Switch
1x M565 & 2 M565 E Quad Quantizer incl. 2 Quantizer Controllers
1x M568 Quad Sequential Trigger Source
1x M569 Quad Sequential Voltage Source
1x M569 EG 32-Point Gate Expander for the M569
1x M569 ES 32-Point Set Expander for the M569
2x M591 Quad Switch Matrix Router

So unless you're primarily a live keyboard player with the $ to spend...it would be hard for me to justify one Crying or Very sad
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

emdot_ambient wrote:
I really love all that I've seen about these.....EXCEPT THE PRICE!

A half-sized controller with a hard case and CV converter runs $4,555. That's a significant amount of change. For people performing a lot, it would be well worth it, but for most of us that's just a bit too high.

$4,555 would get you a pretty killer Moon Modular sequencer set up:

1x M511AC Quad Voltage Controlled Gate Delay
1x M552 Quad CV to Midi Converter
1x M553 Midi to Clock Module
1x M554 Octal Clock Divider
1x M564 Sequential Divider Switch
1x M565 & 2 M565 E Quad Quantizer incl. 2 Quantizer Controllers
1x M568 Quad Sequential Trigger Source
1x M569 Quad Sequential Voltage Source
1x M569 EG 32-Point Gate Expander for the M569
1x M569 ES 32-Point Set Expander for the M569
2x M591 Quad Switch Matrix Router

So unless you're primarily a live keyboard player with the $ to spend...it would be hard for me to justify one Crying or Very sad


Except your modular option doesn't have a controller like the Continuum (big XY pad with multitouch pressure sensitivity), whereas the Continuum has an internal sound source.

You'd have to add a Serge TKB or other touch controller to your modular rig to make more functionally comparable. Then that jacks up the price of your hypothetical rig.

It's funny though that you bring up a modular analog system. I don't mean it in a mean way, though it fulfills a very different type of need compared to the Continuum. I have been thinking of getting a modular as an instrument of sound exploration rather than something - like the Continuum - to be played like a violin (which I do play), even though I do find the Continuum to be a fascinating instrument. I'm probably more likely to get a Serge Creature and build a system around that. Of course before I even do that I'm going to resume exploration of my long-neglected Nord Modular G2.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting interview:

Meet Lippold Haken, maker of “Continuum”

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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dadek



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an improv I did a while back using an internal sound and some external processing.

http://soundcloud.com/dadek/continuum-improv-03
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dadek wrote:
Here's an improv I did a while back using an internal sound and some external processing.

http://soundcloud.com/dadek/continuum-improv-03


Nice work! It sounded close to a processed electric violin, occasionally like a trumpet.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GovernorSilver wrote:
...your modular option doesn't have a controller like the Continuum (big XY pad with multitouch pressure sensitivity), whereas the Continuum has an internal sound source.

You'd have to add a Serge TKB or other touch controller to your modular rig to make more functionally comparable. Then that jacks up the price of your hypothetical rig.

I wasn't really trying to compare the two as far as equivalent functionality, but rather in terms of price for desirable gear...that is, I desire both, but for the price, I'd get much more functionality with the modular gear.

I'd really love to have a Continuum, but more so as a controller for a modular than as an instrument in and of itself. I'm not all that interested in its built-in synth engine, though I've heard a lot of examples that are pretty amazing. The only thing a Continuum or other keyboard controller would be used for by me is for pads and leads, whereas that modular list I posted would provide the entire backbone of what I want to do in live performance. It would not only provide the song and rhythmic structure of entire performances, but also act as a control surface itself. You don't need a Serge TKB in order to perform live with that sequencer gear...the M568 quad sequential trigger source alone provides 128 steps of trigger sources in 4 banks of 32, all at your fingertips...huge functionality.

Not being a particularly good keyboardist, and my music being more sequence oriented, between the two options, the Moon Modular kit is way more exciting, functional and practical. I'd love to have a French Connection as well, which is much cheaper than the Continuum (and not comparable in terms of its function), but it too is financially impracticle for my needs.

None of which keeps me from lusting after the Continuum Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

emdot_ambient wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
...your modular option doesn't have a controller like the Continuum (big XY pad with multitouch pressure sensitivity), whereas the Continuum has an internal sound source.

You'd have to add a Serge TKB or other touch controller to your modular rig to make more functionally comparable. Then that jacks up the price of your hypothetical rig.

I wasn't really trying to compare the two as far as equivalent functionality, but rather in terms of price for desirable gear...that is, I desire both, but for the price, I'd get much more functionality with the modular gear.

I'd really love to have a Continuum, but more so as a controller for a modular than as an instrument in and of itself. I'm not all that interested in its built-in synth engine, though I've heard a lot of examples that are pretty amazing. The only thing a Continuum or other keyboard controller would be used for by me is for pads and leads, whereas that modular list I posted would provide the entire backbone of what I want to do in live performance. It would not only provide the song and rhythmic structure of entire performances, but also act as a control surface itself. You don't need a Serge TKB in order to perform live with that sequencer gear...the M568 quad sequential trigger source alone provides 128 steps of trigger sources in 4 banks of 32, all at your fingertips...huge functionality.

Not being a particularly good keyboardist, and my music being more sequence oriented, between the two options, the Moon Modular kit is way more exciting, functional and practical. I'd love to have a French Connection as well, which is much cheaper than the Continuum (and not comparable in terms of its function), but it too is financially impracticle for my needs.

None of which keeps me from lusting after the Continuum Wink


Ok, I get where you're coming from now.

A buddy of mine has a Fenix Modular system. I've seen him play solo sets many times with the Fenix, and even played next to him onstage a couple of times. He is the first person I have seen (at least up close) play a modular like a musical instrument in an improvisational context - without a keyboard! All he appeared to do was twist knobs and flip switches, yet the results always fit what everyone else was doing in a group improv context.

I've been inspired to fire up my Nord Modular G2X again, but with an eye towards sound effects/noise/atmospheres as represented by the Serge/Buchla school, even though it has a keyboard. When I'm ready to step up to real modular, I think a Creature by itself will be fine, though after more experimentation with the virtual modular I'll probably have a better idea of what other module (if necessary) to pair with the Creature. At about $1500, it's it a whole different category than, say a 4ms Triwave Picogenerator or a Grendel Drone Commander, but it's the cheapest self-contained Serge modular-in-one-module.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GovernorSilver wrote:
Muied Lumens wrote:
Is there a distibutor for these in Europe? I remember seeing a German company but can't find it now...


A contact in Berlin is given here:
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Continuum/html/pricing/Delivery.html

I always liked the Kyma concept, but it's great that the Continuum now comes with those Kyma-developed sounds self-contained at no additional cost.


Thank you Gov. Smile

I would love to have a little play on the Haken, perhaps at Musik Messe or whatever they seem to be planning in London in May...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Edmund Eagan, a Continuum Fingerboard, and I will be in Schneidersbuero's Musikmesse superbooth. I hope you can come by! (Wir sprechen Deutsch und Englisch.)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome to electro-music.com, Mr. Haken Exclamation

Very Happy

btw, I tried out Franz Danksagmueller's Continuum in 2007. I wasn't very successful trying to connect it to a virtual synth. I remember the Continuum was spitting out lots of MIDI data. Of course you have to figure out what they are, filter them out if you don't need them or try to convert them into data usable for controlling an external synth.
But the feel of it was enchanting Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Most synthesizers (hardware and softsynths) are optimized for MIDI keyboards, and not for continuous control. There is a big difference: With a MIDI keyboard, the sound is triggered by the key going down, and after that the "life" of the sound depends on having a great sample library or synthesis algorithm. With the Continuum, the "life" is breathed into the sound from your fingers, and should not come from the sound itself.

So you have two challenges setting up synths for the Continuum: (1) MIDI configuration for continuous control (one MIDI channel per simultaneous note), and (2) sounds that work well with keyboards often don't work so well with the Continuum. (Just imagine playing a Theremin sound on a keyboard -- would be quite lame -- but Theremin played skillfully is amazingly expressive; its similar with the Continuum.)

Here is what I suggest for making sounds with the continuum:

Make everything work with polyphony 1 first. Make sure you have a good mapping from finger position to synthesis parameters; make sure the pitch bend range is right (so that glissandi turn out right), make sure that pressure controls timbre in a meaningful way and not just loudness, and make sure front-back position has some useful effect on timbre.

If you play monophonically (often "Portamento" mode is good for this, nice effects for multiple fingers making just a single note), then you can make sure you like your sound as it is. Once you go polyphonic, it can be a lot more hassle to change things around on the synth, since you have to do it for each MIDI channel.

For polyphony, you have to set up each MIDI channel the same on your synth. Try polyphony 2 first, just so it is not so confusing. Copy all your synth's configuration from channel 1 to channel 2. Also, set your synth in "Multi-timbral Mode" (this has a different name on different synths) -- so that it accepts data on both MIDI channel 1 and 2, but does not "mix" the data (pitch bends on channel 1 should only affect channel1, pitch bends on channel 2 should only affect channel 2 -- same for the controllers for pressure and front-back position).

I realize this is probably too much detail for this discussion. Don't worry, I have a hard enough time keeping up with email, I won't flood electro-music with too much stuff.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm happy to see you here Lippold! Welcome to electro-music.

I hope to see you in Frankfurt for the Musikmesse then! Great that you will be there - this will be my main reason for going in fact, other than to meet up with people. Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Muied Lumens wrote:
Great that you will be there - this will be my main reason for going in fact, other than to meet up with people. Smile


well...the opportunity to see Edmund Eagan performing with the Continuum (and Kyma, I guess) should be quite astonishing too.

@ Lippold

thanks for your explanation.

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
Muied Lumens wrote:
Great that you will be there - this will be my main reason for going in fact, other than to meet up with people. Smile


well...the opportunity to see Edmund Eagan performing with the Continuum (and Kyma, I guess) should be quite astonishing too.


You are right Carlo, although I find it hard to enjoy the subtleties of music in trade shows.

Maybe this time it will be different.

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