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 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
dub-style feedback loops
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Audent



Joined: Dec 19, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: dub-style feedback loops Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm using a few digital delays and other fx with a mackie mixer for outboard processing/routing and i noticed something a little aggravating.

i set up a feedback loop where aux 1 goes to delay- delay comes back to channel 16...and then turning up aux 1 on channel 16 to get some feedback going...but it seems that when i do this, my feedback sounds horrible and phasy.

is this because i'm using digital delays and the time it takes the processor to pass the audio creates phasing, or am i not doing something correctly?

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a_guy_called_tom



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you have a dry/wet control on the delay you have to make sure that its 100% wet, so nothing of the original signal appears in the feedback loop. otherwise you will get phasing an nasty resonance.
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Audent



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah- mix is set to %100 wet....i still get that horrible phasy tunnely sound Evil or Very Mad
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi

Couple of questions. Which Mackie are you using. Which delay(s) are you using.

It is usually not considered good practice to use the mixer's aux sends to make feedback to outboard gear. If you're sending aux1 to the outboard device and bringing the fx return back in on a channel, that's fine, but if the aux1 send on that channel is post-eq you'd definitely be introducing some very small phase delay which will give you comb filtering. If it's a digital mixer then you'd be propogating and that's got similar problems.

Does the device not have its own, internal feedback?

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Audent



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm using a 1642vlz and for simplicity's sake-a TC D-two delay.

my returns ARE coming back into a stereo channel. I'm not sure if the sends are post eq, but i would assume they would be pre eq.

The D-two does have (wonderful) feedback control, but im just trying to explore some mixing techniques and am running into problems. its very much possible that i am misunderstanding the concept of the feedback loop and it's application.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For many years I did dub style feedback on a Deltalab Effectron ADM1024, that has a +- feedback control. Using a Mackie CR1604 too. Those were the days. Between delay factor, feedback and judicious sending of signal, much fun was had. Again, using the onboard feedback prevents such issues with signal quality.
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paul e.



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you are using a digital delay that samples the audio and repeats the samples [unlike analog].... that could explain the phasing...........
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ocp



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Audent wrote:
I'm using a 1642vlz and for simplicity's sake-a TC D-two delay.

my returns ARE coming back into a stereo channel. I'm not sure if the sends are post eq, but i would assume they would be pre eq.

The D-two does have (wonderful) feedback control, but im just trying to explore some mixing techniques and am running into problems. its very much possible that i am misunderstanding the concept of the feedback loop and it's application.


have you tried mono?

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the_ufo



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TAL Dub is a great plugin which will do this for you.
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Insomniak



Joined: Mar 07, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try adjusting the delay time to make it off time, if its too close it can cause phasing and you want it sloppy for dub anyways.
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butchasound



Joined: Mar 24, 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well def make sure that the feedback on the unit is 0% (not sure if this was already implied). If possible, use a tape machine in your signal chain, even a cassette deck. By having space between the record and play heads, this delays the delay a bit and also gives the nice tape degeneration sound. Check this video:

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Zuzz



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a VST called "Dubb Box" that might work.
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