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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
G2 Engine Problem
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jagigli



Joined: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:11 pm    Post subject: G2 Engine Problem Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is anyone else having problems using MIDI to change patches on their G2 engine since the last upgrade? This is driving me crazy ! It used to work just fine using my a Korg Karma or my Roland XP-50. Now I can only change patches with the software. Since I don't use a computer when I perform this pretty much makes the G2 useless..........
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 22377
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use one G2 to send MIDI program changes and bank selects to another G2, both engines, and this still works in OS 1.22.

Did you check your synth settings for correct channel assignments and for Program change reception to be enabled ?

Are you using patch changes or are you using performance chhanges ? In performance mode patch changes should work but I noticed that being in patch mode will make performance switches through MIDI to be not working.

Do you do MIDI program changes only, or do you do bank selections as well ? And if the latter is the case - do you change the bank and the patch in the correct order ?

I do have some problems with MIDI patch selection when the patches involved do variation changes on themselves. For me this resulted into audio outpus getting muted, and at one time the recieving G2 crashed and had to be rebooted to make it work again. Since I stopped using this self varying behaviour of patches I did not have any problems again. BTW this problem was also present in the 1.20 OS.

Jan.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
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Location: Allentown, PA
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting. I don't have an engine, but I got that muted output problem once after just interactively pushing the variation buttons rapidly in an effort to make some sort of performance. (That's a musical performance, not a G2 performance.) It only happend one time - very frustrating though.
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jagigli



Joined: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I first got the G2 and it would boot up in Patch Mode I was able to change banks and patches, no problem. I never got around to trying to change Performances. After the updates, No luck ! I have changed MIDI channels on both the G2 and the controllers I use, I have re-downloaded the editor, synth update and USB driver, uninstalled everything and reinstalled it. I have even used different MIDI cables and connected directly to the G2 without using a patch bay. Still no patch changes but I can assign MIDI control number that work. Anybody have a copy of the first operating system I could reinstall and see if that version still works?
I sure wish the crew at Clavia weren't on vacation
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jagigli



Joined: Jul 22, 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Stop the presses !!!!!!!!!!
After reading another post about setting the global channel to 16 to make Performance changes I set the global channel to OFF ! I can now change banks and patches like I used to. Yahoo ! I'm off to play.

Thanks
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jackson dancing party! party time! party! jackson dancing
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Interesting. I don't have an engine, but I got that muted output problem once after just interactively pushing the variation buttons rapidly in an effort to make some sort of performance.


I've been looking into this a little more.

I think for me the muting occurs when I send variation changes to the G2 during or shortly after a patch change. I now have variation changes blocked during a few seconds after patch changes, no muting anymore.

However ... when I wanted to test if my construction worked with saved patches after powering up the two G2s simultaneously I got the muting again. Under this special condition my lockout trick doesn't work ... of course ... and I get a patch change and some variation changes at the same time then ... sigh ... ok I better fix it.

Jan.

btw Howard - picked up the once CD at the PO, everything in perfect order, some lovely noise is on it :-)
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

btw Howard - picked up the once CD at the PO, everything in perfect order, some lovely noise is on it Smile

Great!!! After you've has a while to digest all of that, please add you comments to the review. http://electro-music.com/article.php?t=1664
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Wan



Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: 259
Location: Netherlands, Ugchelen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Interesting. I don't have an engine, but I got that muted output problem once after just interactively pushing the variation buttons rapidly in an effort to make some sort of performance. (That's a musical performance, not a G2 performance.) It only happend one time - very frustrating though.


This happened to me also just one time, last friday, but it was in front of 300 people.
I also pressed slot buttons and variation buttons in a rapid sequence and bang, no sound anymore, no matter what i did. So at the end of that song the band was paused and the g2 restarted. Then it worked again.

But it did kill my flow at the concert Sad

I still don't know what behaviour caused the incident, so i like to get some more info if anyone knows.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow... playing for 300 people is a kick. I can imagine what a drag it is to have your G2 die in the middle of a song.

I sent notification off to Clavia to be sure to read this topic. These intermittent problems are very hard to detect, and when you can detect them they are hard to fix.

I did notice that when the G2 mutes like this, in the editor you still see the meters on the output modules moving, so the patch is apparently not locked up, and the USB is operational too. You just can't hear the G2.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I did notice that when the G2 mutes like this, in the editor you still see the meters on the output modules moving, so the patch is apparently not locked up, and the USB is operational too. You just can't hear the G2.


I can confirm this.

Should we start a subforum for bugs ?

Jan.

btw: I sent a set of patches to Clavia that will consistently reproduce the problem (for me).
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egw
Stream Operator


Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've had this happen to me too.
I think it was related to patches that were in the G2 before I installed the expansion. When one of these patches was loaded, and I tried to increase the voices to the point where the expansion was needed, then the audio shut off.
So I emptied the machine and reloaded patches as needed. Haven't had the problem since, but I haven't really pushed it.
I agree with the suggestion to have a forum for bugs - keep a list of known ones, what causes them, any possible workarounds etc. To have this organized will be useful for Clavia too.
Maybe also a forum for "wish list" items, such as was done on the mailing list in the past. That way they can be batched up, prioritized, redundancies removed etc.
Having this info (both bugs and wish list) in a single place and organized, presented by the community with a united front, greatly increases our chances of getting a response from Clavia.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I started a new topic about bugs and wishes forums here. http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-2825.html
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cristian



Joined: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Barcelona
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: serious performance program change bug Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep - here I am pulling my hair out over this - I have an external controller for a g2 engine, and i want to quickly changed patches using program change messages coming in from my controllers switches. I'm getting G2 engine crash every time - it has to be turned on and off again to get it back online.

As i understand it, the program changes are being sent out on channel 16 - my slots are on channel 1 - the global MIDI channel on the G2 is set to 16. The global MIDI channel on my controller is also 16.

My patches do indeed have a lot of sequenced variation selecting going on.

The engine/controller combo has to be 100% rock solid, as it is going on stage to be operated by dancers, so no engineer will be able to turn it on and off again!!

Should I accept that this is a major bug that i cant do anything about and build non-performance mode Program Change switches? or is there a solution that i can't see ?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What I did was to incorporate some logic into the patches that block variation changes during a few seconds after a program change, just a few seconds did the trick.

Well, to be true I did it in the controller (another G2 engine), but it could be done in the receiver as well. But every patch sending out variation changes would need this blocking trick one or more times ...

You can use a status module (or a constant set to some positive value), a pulse module and a track and hold module for this. The track and hold blocks the input to the MIDI CC70 sender during the time set by the pulse module. The pulse module can be triggered from the status module (or the constant). Maybe an inverter is needed, something like this, got no G2 here to try it.

I thought this problem was solved though with the 1.24 software ? is it not ?

Jan.
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cristian



Joined: Jul 15, 2004
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Location: Barcelona
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks - no, it hasn't been addressed in 1.24 - apparently its gonna be fixed in the next update. But in the meantime, so I don't get FIRED for relying on equipment with such a major error, I'll try your work arounds... I'm not sure it is just to do with firing Variations - I'm getting engine hangs leaving patches that are changing variations , as well as trying to load them
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cristian



Joined: Jul 15, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

luckily, just got a chance to try a new version of the OS , in beta, and it has solved matters for me.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cristian wrote:
I'm not sure it is just to do with firing Variations


For me the problem occured when variations were changed too soon after or during a patch change. Self varying patches were more vulnerable than patches with variation changes sent to them through external MIDI.

I've attached an example patch showing what I meant in my previous post- hope it will help you.

Jan.


vari_stop.pch2
 Description:
Example patch showing how to block variation changes fore a while after patch change

Download
 Filename:  vari_stop.pch2
 Filesize:  1.11 KB
 Downloaded:  1253 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cristian wrote:
luckily, just got a chance to try a new version of the OS , in beta, and it has solved matters for me.


Damn I missed that one :-)

Jan.
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah! i can't wait! hopefully it comes, soon... and includes some new modules like the fixed freq. filter bank!
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 76
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Freezing with patch change Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have also problems with patch change and freezing Engine.
The problem is that the engine don't like quick programm change and it is a big problem whe you have a knob to select the patchs . I us the remote25 , sometime it works sometime not. My solution is making a copy the original bank 1 to an other place and use only patch without to big problems in the first bank. Whith performances there is the same problem.
Even with the editore
G2 Engine bug or G2 i dont know ?
Sometime Perfs can't be load . First i believed a release problem of performances . Then i have had the same problem with one of my own performance , a very heavy one 100% cycles. I new it was working ...
So i tried to find out why it could not be loaded (error message diplayed).
The solution is quiet simple just creat a new empty performance before loading...The editore seems not eable to clear the memory in a correct way before loading a performance. Maybe it is the same problem when we change the patch or performance ? Data collision when transmission is not ended ? Would mean that data transmission is not secured enough.

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