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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » ChucK programming language
Chuck vs SC (Yet Again)
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barmin



Joined: Jul 12, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: europe

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:45 am    Post subject: Chuck vs SC (Yet Again) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi chuckers,

I've been considering learning SuperCollider for some time now, but I stumbled upon some info about Chuck and I'm wondering if I should change my mind and learn this instead.

What I'm intending to do is mainly tools for manipulating audio in realtime, on stage.
So for me this is much more about audio signal processing than music generation.

Let's take a "simple" example:
- On midi event X, I want to start recording the incoming audio signal
- On midi event Y, I want to start playing back this signal, at another speed and another pitch, while still recording what's coming in

Basically, I guess that would mean two concurrent processes

on midi X: input -> buffer
on midi Y: buffer -> transform -> output

Should I chose Chuck over SC?

From what I've been googling, this would be my tentative answer - but I would really like to hear what you think.

Chose Chuck:
- Cleaner, more readable code
- The beginner doc seems better

Chose SC:
- more mature
- more stable
- needs less CPU
- bigger community
- many existing patches
- easier to make a GUI

Also, I've read somewhere that Chuck's development had stopped. Is this true, or is it likely to be anytime soon?

I know they are some comparisons already on the net, but I would really appreciate to know what's the state in 2012 for my use case (read: "please convince me, my heart wants Chuck, my head choses SC").

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3730
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 275
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome barmin!

I always find it hard to argue one way or the other, but one impression I have is that the threshold for trying something simple is lower in ChucK. So you could just try out your simple use case in ChucK for yourself, see how that feels (I see a solution in my mind's eye which wouldn't be too much of an effort, once you know how it works). If it's a pain try the same thing in SuperCollider. If you want some help with your use case give a shout and me or someone else can give a hand. The secret word to look for in this case is "LiSa". Smile

It may be interesting to know what kind of computer you're going to use. ChucK on Mac supports MAUI (I think) which is a kind of GUI kit that is not available for PC or Linux. ChucK on Linux may require some messing around with Jack and drivers.

Also, what would you need a GUI for? In your use case the interface would be the midi controller. I personally find that interacting with ChucK using the computer keyboard or a midi controller is enough, but you may have more advanced stuff in mind.

/Stefan

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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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Audio files: 275
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW I should say that I haven't really tried out SuperCollider at all, so take my comments about that with a grain of salt.
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barmin



Joined: Jul 12, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: europe

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stefan,

Many thanks for your answer.

Antimon wrote:

The secret word to look for in this case is "LiSa". Smile


This Lisa girl definitely seems to be the one to meet in this case!
Thanks, you just saved me a few hours searching for it Smile

Antimon wrote:

It may be interesting to know what kind of computer you're going to use. ChucK on Mac supports MAUI (I think) which is a kind of GUI kit that is not available for PC or Linux. ChucK on Linux may require some messing around with Jack and drivers.


I'm using Linux, but as I'm already working with realtime sound the jack and driver part is no problem for me.

Antimon wrote:

Also, what would you need a GUI for? In your use case the interface would be the midi controller. I personally find that interacting with ChucK using the computer keyboard or a midi controller is enough, but you may have more advanced stuff in mind.


In this case I think I'd appreciate some kind of visual feedback on the computer screen.
But I was wondering about GUIs just to get a better picture of what can be done and what cannot.
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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3730
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 275
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

barmin wrote:

In this case I think I'd appreciate some kind of visual feedback on the computer screen.
But I was wondering about GUIs just to get a better picture of what can be done and what cannot.


Ok gotcha. On linux I think there's basically no support for gui in ChucK as such. ChucK talks OSC, and you can use stuff like Processing (for Java) to talk OSC to ChucK and do graphics etc. There are other things around.

I've used either printing on the command line or visual feedback on my controllers, especially the monome.

Regarding development of ChucK, we've been hearing for a couple of years that another awesome version is coming real soon now. I'm not holding my breath. The product is very useful as it is though, small but neat with just the right tools that allow you to do anything really. If you get to know the quirks and work around them (memory leaks caused by advanced usage of strings or arrays, references to objects becoming invalid if you pass them in the wrong way), your ChucK apps will be stable enough.

I'm not promoting ChucK here, you have to make up your own mind, but as I said, it won't cost lots to just give it a try and see if you like it. Smile

/Stefan

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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh and check out the mailing list, it's still fairly active:

https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

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barmin



Joined: Jul 12, 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I took a moment to play with LiSa objects and I was surprised that I could do (a sketch of) what I want with very little code.

I could not have the mouse or keyboard working (cannot open mouse even if I "fix" the permissions on /dev/input/mouse0, can open keyboard but don't get anything), but MIDI input is OK.

I guess I'm going to try and do the same little program with SC and chose after that what way to go.

Many thanks for your help & information!
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