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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
Cynare Modifications
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Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Cynare Modifications
Subject description: TH's Clangora to the rescue!
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I recently built my Cynare and like some of the others who've posted here were not quite content with the operation and lack of percussive punch. Through my experiments with my own hihat circuit, which I hope to publish soon, I found that I was able to salvage this project using the front end of Thomas Henry's Clangora project.

If you use Figure 2 from the Clangora, which is the trigger input, logic switching and envelope generator and use it to replace the same circuitry of the Cynare, you'll find yourself with one smooth operating punchy percussion synth. I used the entire Clangora front end with the exception of the lower left portion (IC4c and Q2 circuitry). The envelope output of Q4 is fed to a PNP common base transistor with an input of 10K ohms and the output to the junction marked where the 100K meets the 1K resistor. (I certainly wished Ken had numbered these components!)

I also had trouble with the noise level, so I boosted the amplification at op amp C and used the shimmer mix pot as a noise level pot. I found I always want the oscillators, but want to vary the noise amount. I also lowered the mix input resistor from 100K to 22K for a further boost in signal.

On my prototype I did use op amp A for the Clangora IC1a and b, but I would suggest putting IC1a and b on the same perfboard with all the other Clangora parts to keep it clean.

There are 2 things left undone. I have not hooked up the impact generator to try that and the VCF env gen in isn't working like it does with the original circuitry. I believe a wire from the clangora env gen out signal to the 1N impact generator cap should work just fine. For the filter, I believe I need to adjust the filter envelope processor input resistor.

I'm using the classic signal source-->VCF--->VCA signal path of my unit. I like the VCA on the final signal to act as a noise gate for any stray signals.


CynareRescue.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  38.03 KB
 Viewed:  6346 Time(s)

CynareRescue.gif



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richardc64



Joined: Jun 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Cynare Modifications
Subject description: TH's Clangora to the rescue!
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Dan Lavin wrote:
...the VCF env gen in isn't working like it does with the original circuitry. For the filter, I believe I need to adjust the filter envelope processor input resistor.


How about a simpler attenuverter, saving one op amp?


up-dn.gif
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Ian Fritz's (left) or Fonik's (right)
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up-dn.gif



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Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Richard,

Thanks much for the suggestion, but it may not be necessary. The PNP used between the output of the Clangora Env Gen and the Cynare Env In point is a voltage to current convertor needed for the 3080. I can probably isolate the VCF env input from that point (cut the trace)and just run the Clangora env gen voltage output to that point with another jumper wire from my perfboard.

When I get a moment, hopefully today, I'll give it a try....along with the impact generator add back on. I don't know, it seems pretty punchy already. On my own hihat circuit, I have a VCA trimmer and just adjust for a tiny touch of VCA thump as my impact generator.

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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a link to the main Clangora article with schematics:
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=clangora&t=14827

Sorry! I should've included this with the original post!

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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I got both the impact generator and filter env response working just fine. For the impact generator, just run a jumper from the top side of 1n cap to the top of the 1K resistor where the Clangora output goes. If you leave this out, it's no big deal. The extra tap sound is very marginal. You won't miss it if you leave it out.

For the filter correction, you need to separate the 100K resistor and the 1K resistor where I show the Clangora env gen input connecting. Now run a jumper from the ClangoraQ4/R11 junction to the 100K resistor and you're in business. In fact I think you can probably leave the 22K OTA current control input resistor and just forget about the extra PNP transistor I use on the output of the clangora as an extra voltage to current converter. I'll try that sometime later this week to be sure. I already had the extra PNP transistor wired on my perfboard, so that's what I used. If you skip the extra PNP, the 100K and 1K resistor stay attached like in my schematic above.

I'll also try to record some samples. With the envelope filter control, it can get pretty gimmicky. I really like the bandpass with cranked Q. It sounds equally good with just the oscillators or with lots of noise.

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Dan Lavin



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Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's some samples I recorded tonight with the mods as indicated above.


CynareBPMixDownEnv.mp3
 Description:
This is Bandpass filter, noise mixed in and normal/down envelope CV on the filter

Download
 Filename:  CynareBPMixDownEnv.mp3
 Filesize:  112.34 KB
 Downloaded:  347 Time(s)


CynareBPMixUpEnv.mp3
 Description:
This is the Bandpass filter with Noise mixed in and the inverted/up env CV to the filter

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 Filename:  CynareBPMixUpEnv.mp3
 Filesize:  125.8 KB
 Downloaded:  343 Time(s)


CynareBPnoNoise.mp3
 Description:
This is the BandPass filter (minimal settings) with no noise mixed in

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 Filename:  CynareBPnoNoise.mp3
 Filesize:  162.13 KB
 Downloaded:  320 Time(s)


CynareBPwNoise.mp3
 Description:
This is the Band Pass filter (minimum effect) with Noise set to max

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 Filename:  CynareBPwNoise.mp3
 Filesize:  103.35 KB
 Downloaded:  313 Time(s)


CynareHPMixUpEnvHiQ.mp3
 Description:
This is with the High Pass Filter, Noise and Oscillators mixed, HiQ and the Up Env Generator (inverted CV)

Download
 Filename:  CynareHPMixUpEnvHiQ.mp3
 Filesize:  106.62 KB
 Downloaded:  335 Time(s)


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richardc64



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some unique sounds there, Dan. Well done.

As you might have expected, I especially like the somewhat less unique 2nd one, CynareBPMixUpEnv.mp3 Wink

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Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Richard,

Well I actually did this one for you: CynareBPnoNoise.mp3 (NO noise!)

Yeah, I will admit a couple of these samples are quite obnoxious, but it does show the range of the device. There's a million more sounds with various filter settings and I could've posted a lot more samples.

OTOH, my usable sounds are boring to some here while the ones I label as obnoxious could end up on someone's next CD release!

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otoskope



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Cynare Modifications
Subject description: TH's Clangora to the rescue!
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Thanks a lot for this informative post. I had similar problems with the noise level in a Metalbox Cynare I just bought used.

Dan Lavin wrote:
I also had trouble with the noise level, so I boosted the amplification at op amp C.


I did this mod - changing the opamp gain resistors to 5M and 1K3 (the nearest I had available), and the 330K by the noise-generating transistor to 100K (although I'm not really sure of the effect of this last one). This worked well, and the noise is now on a decent level, while it was previously almost impossible to hear. A big change to the better!

So, thanks.

/Palle

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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Glad to hear otoskope! thumb up
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