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A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:08 am Post subject:
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My only criteria for sounds is: do I like them and do they inspire a new melodic or rhythmic line?
Noodling with presets that sound good to me has been the starting point for lots of my music. But so has noodling with "tweaked" presets or sounds I created from scratch.
In other words, if any sound launches ideas, then it's a good sound.
Lately I don't like the sound of traditional instruments (piano, guitar, etc). Other than that, I'll use anything. I'm not proud.
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AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com |
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laura woodswalker
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 463
Location: phoenixville pa
Audio files: 18
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:37 am Post subject:
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| Freds 1030 wrote: | Interesting...
I always believed that part of composing electronic music is working with sound and creating new sounds, especially in more experimental music.
Also, if I hear music where the main focus is on melodies and harmonies I'm not bothered by presets because sound is not the point of the composition. On the other hand, if I hear an atmospheric piece, for example, and I recognize a few of the patches I'm turned off. |
hmm, interesting thread, I'm kind of new in electronica so I don't know all of the finer points of sound design such as FM, PWM, etc. So I usually use a patch that I like, although I like to use filters & delay, the 'bread & butter" effects. I can modify the patches, but if I try to design a sound from scratch, it usually doesn't sound too good.
I think it is possible to create awesome-sounding music without necessarily 'reinventing the wheel" all the time, just as musicians in other genres are using the same old tired-out 6-strings and remo-head drums and yet creating something original.
I don't think there are rigid divisions between definitions & types of music & what they 'should' contain. I do think that Composition is the bottom line. It should be a listenable piece of music. If you create a sound, you still should "do something with it."
I have heard performances that are interesting for about 3 minutes because they use unusual sounds, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of composition, no rhythm, it doesn't go anywhere.
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Patchmouse
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: Presets vs Custom sounds - your thoughts? |
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| Freds 1030 wrote: | What are your thoughts about composing using factory presets vs custom patches?
I know is a bit of a generic question and for different styles there might be different "standards", but I'm curious to hear people thoughts on this.
In my opinion the sounds are part of the composition and using a default sound or loop is almost like cheating, but that might because my background and the style of music I compose.
I do think that your pallet is like a little universe you create, so at the end your music has more personality. Then again, I've been guilty of using factory loops and synth patches when working again a tight deadline (on the film scoring world). |
I have no qualms about using anything, preset, sample, or whatever, if it sounds right for the piece use it. I like using presets a lot lately, because you can take the piss with them, referencing things in a very ironic way, I like that a lot, but sometimes people get it, and sometimes not, this all started way back with samples, and people using them to say "hey ! this is where were coming from!" in an obvious way. I like it all, you get it in classical music, the piano and the violin have preset sounds ! no one ever accuses those people of being "cliched" 
Patchmouse. |
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A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject:
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I just learned something that makes me want a Mac computer.
The computer-resident sound editor for the MicroKorg is the same for Mac and PC... except that the Mac version has a randomizer!!!
When you activate the randomizer it randomly selects settings for all the parameters on the MK!!!!!!
I want that!!!
It would be a blast to do tracks using completely unpredictable sounds!!
(The closest I've gotten to this so far is when my cat walks across my computer keyboard when I'm editing sounds.)
_________________
AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com
Last edited by A E J O T Z on Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Patchmouse
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:29 am Post subject:
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| A E J O T Z wrote: | I just learned something that makes me want a Mac computer.
The computer-resident sound editor for the MicroKorg is the same for Mac and PC... except that the Mac version has a randomizer!!!
When you activate the randomizer it randomly selects settings for all the parameters on the MK!!!!!!
I want that!!!
It would be a blast to do tracks using completely unpredictable sounds!!
(The closest I've gotten to this so far is when my cat walks across my computer keyboard then I'm editing sounds.) |
I also thought this was a good idea, randomizing patches. I was never able to do it with hardware, and for some reason it wasn't on the priority list of any manufacture I knew of. Until, I got Reaktor, there are a few synth's in there, and ones made by third parties, that have a randomize button as standard. I was a great fan of the DX7, and when I got FM7 it was great to find the randomize feature on that as well. However, I haven't used it as much as I thought I would, the results are rarely "better" than the patch I was working on.
What I "WOULD" like, is a program that actually makes new music from existing tracks, wouldn't it be great to be able to put two songs into a program and see them morph into something that the computer thought was a good idea, a new genre, now that would be a step forward. The really difficult stuff is still unattainable, it seems. This could open up a whole new can of worms, and put a lot of us out of business, what business there is left anyway !
Patchmouse. |
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Frederick, MD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:59 am Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | | I'm older than presets. |
You ain't the only one!
I'll tell you one preset sound I'm TOTALLY sick of hearing: Violins.
Especially in film scores.
STOP THE VIOLINS IN MOVIES!
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Keysandslots
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:
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I'm kinda sick of hearing "pads" in general. Most keyboard players use too many notes, voiced in close clusters, and out comes a bunch of mud that covers everything else up. It's even worse in a live situation, because the natural reverb makes mud even muddier.
It is probably a good idea to stay away from certain presets, at least in my opinion. That Van Halen Jump pad from the Oberheim OB-X (I think) is one. The Korg Wavestation shows up in all sorts of video-related stuff now, I hear it alot on TV shows in particular, and it is another synth with cool sounds that have been ruined by over-use. I have owned both of those synths in the past, both long gone now.
I also think there is too much music in movies and TV now-a-days. Sometimes it would be nice to have a bit of silence, or just some ambient or room tones.
Randy |
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laura woodswalker
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 463
Location: phoenixville pa
Audio files: 18
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject:
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QUOTE I'm kinda sick of hearing "pads" in general
And the person who said they were sick of Violins, and music in general.
Yeah... I'm sick of film scores, they are always so cliche!! Frinstance the Harry Potter films, here's all this weird stuff happening & there is the usual orchestral score. And guess what, Harry comes face to face with Voldemort & there's no music/soundtrack at all!!!
Think how much cooler a fantasy or SF movie would be with truly 'fantasy' type of music, something weird and wonderful like the stuff you hear at E-M.
Or else it's punk rock with Vampires.
When some of the stuff I heard at E-M would have been such great atmospheric movie music!
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject:
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| laura woodswalker wrote: |
Yeah... I'm sick of film scores, they are always so cliche!! Frinstance the Harry Potter films, here's all this weird stuff happening & there is the usual orchestral score. And guess what, Harry comes face to face with Voldemort & there's no music/soundtrack at all!!!
Think how much cooler a fantasy or SF movie would be with truly 'fantasy' type of music, something weird and wonderful like the stuff you hear at E-M.
Or else it's punk rock with Vampires.
When some of the stuff I heard at E-M would have been such great atmospheric movie music! |
+1
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Patchmouse
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 am Post subject:
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[quote="emdot_ambient"] | mosc wrote: |
STOP THE VIOLINS IN MOVIES! |
Yes ! and stop the brass as well, and while your at it, just stop Hollywood.
Patchmouse. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18198
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 am Post subject:
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 | "Bernard Hermann"
I think that film scores are pretty hard to take for a lot of musicians because the musicality is subservient to the drama. But, there are fortunately a few exceptions.
Two of my favorite film scores are by Bernard Hermann.
The Day The Earth Stood Still (1950s version)
Vertigo
Interesting that recently a group of film critics in England changed their vote on the best movie of all time from Citizen Cane to Vertigo. No one mentioned that both of those films have scores by Bernard Hermann. Sometimes the score makes the movie.
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Patchmouse
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:42 am Post subject:
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Can you imagine Blade Runner without the music ? Or 2001...
I like a lot of the films produced by British Transport Films, they are absolute gems as far a music is concerned, check-out the beginning of "Terminus" But some of my favourite films don't actually have any music, those by Jacque Tati just have sound effects.
I don't like Hollywood, or mainstream movies anymore, full stop, end of story. They give me nothing, they are a manifestation of all that is wrong with the film industry, America, and peoples attitudes to what exactly telling a story is all about, or, is not about, in this case.
My favourite film composers....
Mark Isham.
Mark Isham...and...
Mark Isham.
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audiodef
Joined: Sep 05, 2011
Posts: 726
Location: LFO1
Audio files: 53
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:22 am Post subject:
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| Patchmouse wrote: |
I don't like Hollywood, or mainstream movies anymore, full stop, end of story. They give me nothing, they are a manifestation of all that is wrong with the film industry, America, and peoples attitudes to what exactly telling a story is all about, or, is not about, in this case.
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Yep. Same here. Whenever I want to watch a movie that came out of Hollywood, if there is a director's cut, I opt for that. First time I watched "The Butterfly Effect", I watched the DC and thought it was a good movie. Later, I watched the theatrical ending and wanted to stab my eyes out.
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Patchmouse
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:14 am Post subject:
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I quite fancied going to see "On The Road" but decided not to. I heard a trailer for it and it sounded just like all the other over produced, over acted rubbish that is Hollywood these days. Why is everyone shouting ? why is there "constant" music ? why are the scenes cut to satisfy somebody who has the attention span of a nanosecond ? Plus, there are a lot of very overrated actors out there, people om multimillion dollar wages for doing sod all. Acting when it succeeds sounds and looks like real life, period. I can always tell when there is a film review on my radio simply becasue it sounds like someone "acting" !!!! Ad to all this the current rage for CGI, shoot-em-up's, and general crap, the last things that seems to be on the agenda is a good story and great acting. The digital revolution as far as cheap video and film equipment goes is the best thing that's ever happened to this industry, hopefully it will create a lot of cheap and interesting productions by aspiring film makers who actually have some talent, rather than just a huge budget.
Patchmouse. |
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nowwearesix1980
Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:38 am Post subject:
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| Patchmouse, I completely agree! I've been watching the walking dead recently and it's fairly entertaining while people are killing zombies, but as soon as the frigging actors open their mouths, nothing but stock phrases and cheap sentiments come out. It's nauseating, particularly since I have had the misfortune of having watched and finished "the wire" not too long ago. I say misfortune because it has no soundtrack at all, is impeccably written, brutally realistic and one of the best acted pieces of drama I have ever seen: in other words, things I could once have tolerated I can no longer tolerate in comparison! Have you heard Jonny Greenwood's soundtrack to There Will Be Blood? In my opinion, it is one of the greatest movie soundtracks ever written. What's your opinion? |
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 667
Location: Frederick, MD
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blue hell
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Freak's Utopia
Joined: Jul 31, 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:32 am Post subject:
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I do consider presets as starting points...
However I always got my best sounds starting from zero,
But
If you are in a hurry and you have to finish that 30s AD soundtrack,
go with the presets.
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Manuel Marino
Joined: Aug 07, 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:21 am Post subject:
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I think that there are songs where you absolutely need to customize the sounds. And other songs where you just need a "preset" because it's that sound that you need and it's useless to try to create something similar if.... it's there!
As example, I need a Wurlitzer. It's there, why I should struggle with the sound editors if I just need that specific sound? Load it on your sampler, and play on your keyboard. That's all!
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pyrosonic
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 383
Location: Kent,Oh. USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:16 am Post subject:
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More of what I've done are mods of patches I found here,partially because I'm lazy,partly because I don't have as much time on my hand as I'd like,and partially because I think it's silly to "reinvent the wheel".
Examining other people's patches in the editor is a great way to learn this thing.Sometimes it's really hard to figure out what's going on,but isn't that often the case with learning something?
One thing that I found on here (can't remember right now who did the patch)
was a couple granular synthesis patch's.Even though I've perused the archives I missed them until the author mentioned them in a thread.I had been getting into granular quite a bit using MOTU Machfive3 and was stunned to find out you could do it (although in a limited fashion) on the G2.Nice to have that capability without having the computer with you.
My #1 mod that I do to other people's patches?
ASSIGNING A KNOB TO PATCH VOLUME!
I'm amazed at how many folks don't do this!
It's the quickest way to balance parts if you're only using 2 outs.(well duh)
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brainvoyager
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
Posts: 29
Location: The Netherlands, Heerhugowaard
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:52 am Post subject:
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| Acoustic Interloper wrote: | .....
There are many forms of electronic music. Not all electronic music is sound design, any more than all acoustic music is instrument design. If one's compositional emphasis is combinatorics for example, algorithmic generation of patterns of sounds with some harmonic or rhythmic interrelationships, and not sound design, then I'd say that generating those patterns using presets is not less creative than generating patterns using congas, kalimbas, a violin, or whatever one has at hand.
.....
What matters is the piece, and its performance. |
You are so right in my opinion! If I listen to Beethoven, or Mahler, or Mozart, or Vivaldi, etc, I recognize many instruments all the time. Of course I know that these are acoustic instruments but the principle is the same. So what? I do both.
What matters is the composition, the arrangement and the chosen combination of sounds, whatever sounds that may be. But that's just my opinion. Nothing more and nothing less.
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I don't care about genres, I just make music. |
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