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 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
Sound creation philosophy
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steampump



Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 76
Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Sound creation philosophy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We speak lot of technical problems in this forum but less about sound and music.
So my question is not related to the G2 synth only.
How are you creating sound ?

Just for my own way of working. When i need a sound i think in colors and pictures. The colors are timbers layered like watercolors. The shape is like a landscape to fit all together. A sound is not only made by one synth. I often use 2 or 3 synth for a sound. My masterkeyboard (Elka MK55) is very nice for this job . Two keyboard are combined, the Elka allows this . 3 layer can be assigned for each and stored in 64 patch.
Sometime i just search new colors, and sometime i just select a timber from all different patch to apply on a sound shape.
I try to keep in mind that my sound should not be to complex and overloaded, and leave place for sounds coming from an other synth. All sounds are some kind of patchworks. The hardest is to remember were they are stored.
The G2 is a big playground for me, but i don't want to miss my older synths , each have his charm. Tomorrow something new will com on market so i do not think if this or else is the best synth. The best is only the best i can make with each. The adventure of sounds began 30 years ago when i was listen the C3 Hammond with leslie cabinet of my friend....I bought my first synth ten years after an ESQ1....

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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As editor, I'm moving this topic to the Composition forum, but leaving a link to in in the Nord Modular Discussion.

As a musician, i work pretty much the same way, but a lot of the time I prefer to work in an experimental mode. I patch up something in some ways I've never used before just to see what happens. Sometimes new sounds come out that I've never heard before. This is a process for inspriation; a creativity stimulant.

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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah! I realy like where "my" corner is going, I too feel this should be seen as a part of composition but I don´t think many people agree.

Either way; I´ve taken to the oldfashioned view of looking at synthesis from a "exciter" + "resonator" point of view. This has had a couple of concequences, even building one sound now requires rerouting everything in sight but it also means I am now using anything as anything. For example; I´ve been using the highhats from a drum box as a exciter, then sending those to the "resonator" of a cheap multi effect, sequencing the two independantly from the laptop and recording the end result down as if it were a single synth.

I´ve been having a lot of fun with this, it´s a much richer way of looking at things then seeing the borders of the gear as the borders of their function, if you get what I mean. It gives a much more detailed controll of expression though chords become hard to manage in detail.

I´ve also taken to "playing" each parameter live, in real time, often through the use of my theremin controler (translated to midi by the G1, then distributed by Live), for a more direct, personal touch.

Good topic.

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SpiralGrooves



Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ive really been enjoying dropping any sound i can find into Live's SIMPLER instrument and using it as an oscillater, then resampling that and repeating the process. This has yielded some pretty interesting results.
It's interesting to think oustide of the realm of just the basic waveforms as oscillators that most synths give you to work with.

As far as designing sound i dont usually tend to think in colors as Steampump mentioned but in envelopes instead...

Should the sound im looking for have a fast attack, long release, etc...

Often I'll have auditioned several sounds that are close enough but not quite what im looking for so, i'll play them all simultaneously and then use the resulting wav as an oscillator in Lives SIMPLER with the method ive described above.

I really think the results are much richer than most softsynths ive tried by themselves...

Hardly anything advanced, but perhaps useful to someone...
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sloppycoder



Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Bath, UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm interesting post Razz it does say philosophy at the top so heres mine.

"if it SOUNDS better it IS better(but make a backup anyway)"

I tend to focus on distorted nasty softsynths through filters, as well as big simple sounds (usually squelched square waves with saucy little slides/ delay ect). A lot of sound design i do with plugins, im swarming all over FL Studio 5's new mixer and making a lot of strange sounds with that.

In terms of visualisting the sound i tend to see in envelopes, kinda a 3d cylinder with volume making it wide in one direction and anything else on another axis. I also see the waveforms move ,especially watching how they change as you slide up/ down.

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jkn



Joined: Mar 14, 2004
Posts: 469
Location: La Porte, IN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How am I creating sound?

Lots of different ways - different methods over the years - but I guess a general it usually falls somewhere near this bucket approach is this...

I start with a sound - if it's synth - I start with a patch that maybe I created or a preset of some type - and start 'playing' around with it. I tend to like effects and treat them as part of the sound right from the start. So I'll bring in delay/reverb/distortion/whatever - find what hits me right - and hit record. Sound sculpting might be the right word for it - it might not. I do the same with my trumpet and bass - or routing drums (usually from Fruity) - or minidisc recordings through my effects/synths.

I love feedback - sometimes wall of noise feedback, sure - but more often I like feedback that's very, very subtle - adding a bit of texture. All of my effects are set in feedback loops. I guess if there's one fairly humorous thing that's been with me since the 80's - it's controlled feedback.

Like Howard, I like to hook things up in ways that I haven't done before. I'm fond of using things for the 'wrong' reasons in the 'wrong' ways... Smile

Creating sound isn't necessarily the same as writing songs - though for me it often is a very similar process. It somewhat depends on what type of song I'm writing - lately many of tracks are more drums and drones sorts of affairs - so they start out with minimal drums recording all the effects live - and then layer in the thicker soundscapey atmospheric stuff.

Then again - I write piano tunes as well... Smile
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jkn



Joined: Mar 14, 2004
Posts: 469
Location: La Porte, IN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh - I guess one other tidbit... I rarely "try" to create anything specific anymore - I just do it by feel sort of in autopilot. I've found that the more I disconnect from thinking - the better things turn out. I learned this a long time ago doing live gigs - if I could let go and play by feel - and stop thinking - the music flowed. That's not to say I don't think about things - I may think prior about different ways of setting up gear - or ask myself questions like I wonder what would happen if I did 'x' and 'y' - but when I actually turn the gear on and hook it up and start - I just let go and let whatever wants to happen, happen.

I've found my brain just works this way - I can 'force' things when in a pinch - but I'm not in a pinch with music - it's just the thing I love to do. At work - when I'm solving coding or logic problems - the worst ones are usually solved with the just let go technique as well... though sometimes grunting through bit by bit is necessary... Wink
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salo-t



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Helsinki,Finland

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the music I have been making lately, the sound creation and composition are a part of the same process. I cannot really say where the sound designing ends and composing begins.

I make sounds (and music) quite intuitively and experimentally, much in a similar way to what mosc and jkn already described. I might have a general idea about the sound; do I want to make a rhythmic sound, or an athmospheric sound, a low register sound or a high register sound, etc., but things can often go into surprising directions.

Sometimes I have the need to make a specific sound, like a synth bass sound, and then I work in a different way, building the sound from the beginning with a clear idea of what I want, and how it's going to fit into the piece I'm making it for.
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AWM



Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My sound creation philosophy at the moment is to think of a sound as a characture that can be sculpted. I'll start with one sound and then find usaully a maximum of 5 other sounds sources that 'work' with each other under some general concept. Once i have the core sounds i wont add anymore new sources, but sculpt and layer the sounds to fit what should happen next in the composition.
i agree with the 'Autopilot' idea and the intuitive expermental aprouch as a way of finding how a sound should be. Often i think of the sounds themeselves interacting with each other like a conversation. For instance what would one sound do if another was put through a certain effect or stretched it in certain way ect. One thing i like to do is take a sound and stretch it out to see what makes it up. Through this process i usaully end up with a lot of edits of a small number of sound sources. Often there will be an idea of a certain sound that will be vastly different from its original source.

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astroid power-up!



Joined: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 334

G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting topic.

as a composer, i always want to find sounds which i can integrate into a larger scheme. i did most of a whole album with just sine waves-mostly because I wanted something without overtones. also, I've recently been getting interested in finding the relation of sounds to a rhythmic framework-like a 7/4 interval with a 7/4 beat for instance.

as an electronic musician, I want sounds where you can't tell where they came from- like how BOC "Geogaddi" sounds- all noise reduced and degraded. That's also why I like sine waves-they could come from anywhere. you could tightly filter a bonghit and get a sine wave.

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