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Roland D5 sounding weird...
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nhirst



Joined: Jan 02, 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Roland D5 sounding weird... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

First, hello everyone. I'm new on here, moonlighting from the soundonsound.com forums. Hope you're all well.

I recently dusted off an old D5 in the hope it would provide some nice FM-y retro sounds. It powers up fine, and all is accessible, etc. But whatever mode I play in, it sounds warbly - like it's underwater.

Confusingly, the ROM demo song plays back fine. It's just when I play myself, in all modes. Which I guess discounts the internal amp..?

I've had a look on this forum and found this post:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-307020.html

which wasn't quite about the same thing (though the pics were helpful in taking the thing apart). It's probably not worth paying a lot to get this fixed, but I do like some of the sounds it can make so am hoping someone on here can give some advice as to what might be going wrong, what to look for, what to replace...

Thanks,

Nick
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Nick!

"warbly" eh? sort of like an LFO spewing uncontrolled modulation into the filter? Or is it 50Hz hum getting into the internal signal chain?

Might be useful to post a sample of the symptomatic sounds. Does manipulating various modulation (mod wheel for example) have any effect? Does disabling modulation have any effect?

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DES



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would check the modulation and pitch controls... You might want to try a system reset too. A possibility might be that the internal battery has died or is marginal and the internal presets are scrambled. The Demo songs are typically programmed into ROM so are not subject to battery issues..
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nhirst



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, both.

@EdisonRex: Yeah, sort of like an LFO set to random. Don't know whether it's a 50Hz hum or not to be honest - I'd have expected that to sound a little more regular.

Have attached samples in case you can tell from those. Also posted is the ROM song to demonstrate how that sounds fine.

Actually now I check it, the mod/pitch wheel is behaving quite oddly. When I push mod up, nothing changes. When I bend pitch up, it transposes smoothly up a semitone (as expected) and the warbly effect disappears. When I bend pitch down, the effect remains but seems to intensify. No change to pitch (that I can hear).

@DES: so maybe I've started to confirm what you suggested too.

I am now getting a "check internal battery" message (though it's literally only just started today) - but I was under the impression a dead internal battery could only wipe user-saved patches, rather than affecting the sound of presets?

And as far as I know there is no "system reset" function on the D5. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So if it *is* something to do with pitch/modulation as diagnosed, any ideas how I might fix it? Manual isn't being very helpful...

Thanks so much,

Nick


D5 ElecOrgan1.mp3
 Description:
Preset A21 from multi-timbral mode.

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 Filename:  D5 ElecOrgan1.mp3
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D5 A11AcouPiano1.mp3
 Description:
A11 also from multi-timbral mode

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 Filename:  D5 A11AcouPiano1.mp3
 Filesize:  202.47 KB
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ROM Demo Song.mp3
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And the demo song.

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 Filename:  ROM Demo Song.mp3
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nhirst



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
When I bend pitch up, it transposes smoothly up a semitone (as expected) and the warbly effect disappears.


pedantic point, but actually it transposes up two semitones, as expected...

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it sounds to me like the pitch bender/mod lever might be broken

try turning the modulation sensitivity down to zero in the patch/timbre to see if that removes the warble

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DES



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alrighty then....I took a cruise thru the D-5 service manual. Here is some info that might help you. You may want to print this out so you have it...

--------
Roland D5 Test Mode

Before conducting the tests, make sure that the pedal and memory card are not connected.

Entering test mode:

1 - Press the MODE repeatedly until the ROM PLAY LED lights. The unit is now in ROM PLAY mode.

2 - Press and hold the EXIT and EDIT and then press the ENTER; the display shows the following indicating that the init is in test mode.

Select Mode
A/B + ***button

During the test mode the following buttons serve as test selector button.

A/B+NUMBER1 BATTERY TEST
A/B+NUMBER2 DA ADJUST
A/B+NUMBER3 A/D, SWITCH TEST
A/B+NUMBER4 LED TEST
A/B+NUMBER5 MEMORY TEST
A/B+NUMBER6 CARD TEST
A/B+NUMBER7 TUNE TEST
A/B+NUMBER8 MIDI TEST
A/B+BANK1 KEYBOARD TEST

Press and hold the A/B and then press the DISP: test routine will proceed to the next each time DISP is pressed.

To exit the test mode, turn off and on the unit, or while holding the A/B press the INT/CARD.

------------
To check your Pitch and Mod levers go to test 3 which is the A/D and Switch test. If you press the pitch to th eright it should show in the display an increase from 000 to +127. The other direction should go opposite - 000 to -127.

With Mod lever it should go from 000 at rest to 127 when pushed forward.

You can also check your panel switchs and hold pedal inputs.
-----------------
There doesn't seem to be a 'normal' reset procedure however Roland has a section in the service manual called 'Setting Data'. Here it is...

Setting Data

If the tone RAM (main board IC17) has lost the tone data due to battery replacement or the tone RAM itself has been replaced, take the following procedure.

1 - Enter test mode.
2 - Holding donw the A/B, press the BANK 7; the following settings will return to the factory value:

SET UP
MIDI
TUNE/FUNCTION
KEY TRANSPOSE

To recover Patch, Timbre and Internal tone to the factory setting, proceed to the following steps.

1 - Enter test mode.
2 - Insert the memory card (D-5 FACTORY PRESET CARD) into the MEMORY CARD slot.
3 - Holding down the A/B, press BANK 6. The display will show the following message, and the recovery process is completed.

FACTORY PRESET
Load Completed

-----------------------

NOTE - you will loose any USER presets that are in the system...but that will happen if you change the battery anyways...

Hope this helps!

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nhirst



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

crikey. extensive help...

Smile

thanks, chaps. will give all that a shot.
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DES



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This should tell you if it's the modulation or pitch wheel.... If it does seem like that it could be due to the coupling between the lever and the potentiometer being loose or broken. Or - it could be one of the interface IC's - I can get you the chip numbers if you need them.

I think in any case you will want to replace the battery and do the reset.

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nhirst



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm ... my reply disappeared.

short version: looks like it's the wheel. during the test, the numbers were all over the place (though they did respond to physical movement of the wheel). and setting bender range to 0 eliminates problem (and increasing it to more than 2 makes it worse).

i also started talking about workarounds and asking whether it was fixable - but Dave, you suggested a couple. I'll try to check the coupling as you suggest - maybe you could give me the chip numbers if it isn't that...

and yeah, i'll replace the battery anyway. and do the reset...

thanks so much again.

nick
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DES



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something else to try - it could just be a bad connection between the lever assembly and the board it connects to. I believe it was mentioned earlier - check all connections - in fact you might want to unplug, then plug back in the cables. If there was any ind of humidity it could cause connections to get corroded. Also check screw connections. Some manufacturers used screws as terminals for grounds and such.

I'll see what I can pull together for you - might be able to get the schematic for you (pain in the butt to copy - over-sized sheets...)

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Last edited by DES on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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nhirst



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DES wrote:
I'll see what I can pull together for you - might be able to get the schematic for you (pain in the butt to copy - over-sized sheets...)


Hey, please don't go to too much trouble with that schematic. I'll try all the simple, obvious connections first...
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dosuna11



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the same thing. I replaced the battery. Still bad. Please post if you find out what it is.
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dosuna11



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I cleaned the contacts to the pitch bend device and even disconnected it from the board. Still bad. Time to move on with newer technology.
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DES



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dosuna11 wrote:
I cleaned the contacts to the pitch bend device and even disconnected it from the board. Still bad. Time to move on with newer technology.


Did you run the self-test to see if the pitch/mod lever was working correctly? If so - are you getting a steady increase/decrease of data or does it jump around?

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dosuna11



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your response. I did not run the test. I did notice the behavior even with the pitch wheel disconnected. The sound jumps around and only is stable when the picth lever is set to the right.
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DES



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You might want to run the test in any case just to see what is happening. Could be any number of issues from bad potentiometers, capacitors, etc... Also possible ground issue with the circuit boards. The test instructions are a few messages earlier...
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Neil



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Sounding Weird Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi All just joined up.

I've just bought a D5 off Ebay, i'm having the same problem.I changed the battery, reinstalled all sound from an other D5, did the test mode on the
bend/mod switch and the numbers are moving by them selves.The service
notes say check the main board IC3, 26, Q6, 11
The weird sound dissapers when the bend/mod switch is turns to zero. Also i tried an other bend/mod switch on and off the board and it made no change to the sound.

I've got all the service notes.
Is this an easy fix?
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dosuna11



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I did the test and the pitch bender modulation was not registering any values. However when the harness to the pitch bender was disconnected the deep sea modulation sound was still there. Time to move on.
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eight11sc



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Newbie here at this forum and another owner of a warbly D5.

Read through all the comments posted here and tried everything, nothing works. New battery makes no difference. tried all the resets, no difference. Only thing I havent tried is the D5 Factory Preset card which I dont own. I did try downloading the factorypatches.zip from Roland and applied the D5 settings over MIDI but this has no effect on the warbly sound. Think both these are for the tone configuration anyhow.

I do however offer a workaround, if you are on the point of binning your D5. I downloaded the schematics for the synth. The bender unit (PB-A0101) uses a centre tapped variable resister. The centre tap is connected to [BROWN]A.GND (Analog Ground). One end of the resister connected to [YELLOW]Vref (5V), the other end to [RED]"POLALITY" (see below), the sweeping contact is the [ORANGE]BENDER output.

The problem seems to lie with the POLALITY signal. This is the output from a "Digital Transister" (Q11, DTA124EK) whose input is connected to IC26, pin7 (HS00).

When the pitch bender wheel is at rest it should be at its mid-point, i.e. BENDER should align with the centre tap i.e. analog ground. When the sweeper is at Vref the pitch goes up, and at POLALITY the pitch goes down. However these faulty keyboards pitch is all over the place, although the underlying sound follows these rules.

If you short the BENDER output to ground there is no effect, its basically the same as its default mid-position. If you short the BENDER ouptut to Vref, the pitch goes up, but the sound is stable. Shorting BENDER to POLALITY is just full-on warble. The answer is to short POLALITY to Analog Ground. This has the effect of stabilising the pitch without bending it up or down.

I suspect something in the synth is writing garbage to the HS00 pin and some kind of software initialisation needs to be done, but no-one seems to have found out how, or the Digital Transistor (Q11) is faulty. However, if you want to mod your D5 to workaround this fault, all you need to do is solder a wire on the pitchbend pot between the BROWN and RED wire terminals. This will prevent pitch bend down, but bend up will still work, most important, the warble should go away.

CAVEAT: I know its generally a bad idea to go grounding outputs, so its possible this fix will be bad for the Q11 device, however the device does contain internal resistors. I don't possess a scope so haven't looked further for a better solution, maybe someone else can pick up from here.
Don't blame me if at all goes wrong.
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TreyGreer



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had exactly this problem on my D5 and I just tracked it down to a bad capacitor on Vref. I was getting a roughly 1 MHz, 1V sinusoidal ripple on Vref. When I added another 10 uF cap (in parallel with the 10 uF C49), the Vref ripple went away and the spurious bender hash went away as well! The bender and modulator functions are now working perfectly, as verified by the test mode described in an earlier post.

Note that I did not remove and test C49; I'm assuming it had failed open.

It just occurred to me that one could apply this fix without removing the circuit board. Just try connecting a 10 uF cap between Vref (yellow) and AGND (brown) on the bender pot.

Many thanks to the other folks who have posted here... it helped a lot!
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Kace



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Another wonky D5
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Hi all - another funny sounding D5 here unfortunately. I'm just finding this thread now but had already sourced and purchased a replacement D5 motherboard and have been in the process of installing it.

Maybe it's just me but what a nightmare trying to get the wires out of the board. I have been at it with tiny screwdrivers, pins etc. trying to get them all out.

Has anyone else out there either a) found a resolution to this issue or b) successfully managed to replace the board and get the wires off ?

I'm at my wits end with sore fingers and at present have everything on the board removed with the exception of the two white wire-sets.

Hopefully someone out there can enlighten me.

Thanks all !
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Jim Bailey



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Roland D5
Subject description: connecting a 10 uF cap between Vref (yellow) and AGND (brown) on the bender pot
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TreyGreer wrote:
It just occurred to me that one could apply this fix without removing the circuit board. Just try connecting a 10 uF cap between Vref (yellow) and AGND (brown) on the bender pot.


I just got friend to do the above and can confirm it worked a treat.
Thanks very much for the advise.
Jim


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soundmasterdee



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Roland D5 warbled sound Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys, unfortunately I also have the same problem. The sound of my Roland D5 suddenly went warbled. I've done a factory reset which went through successfully. I've also gone through the test and all components (battery, memory, etc) registered as working fine.

I've removed the connector for the pitch bend and the sound remains the same. I even placed a 10uF capacitor parallel to the one that TreyGreer mentioned but no joy. All the same, I notice that the voltage around that area of the board registers as 1.3v, whereas its 5v in most places.

I'm tempted to believe that a faulty transistor or capacity is the root cause. I wonder whether anyone has found a solution to this issue. I don't want to throw my D5 away. Thanks.
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