electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
No idea where to start!
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [23 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
King Rat



Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 98
Location: London
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: No idea where to start! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want to create a effect like the one on this clip (the "sparkly" one that starts high and goes low, not the lead sound) but I have absolutely no idea where to start with this sort of thing. Any suggestions as to general approaches to patching this sort of sound most gratefully accepted.
Cheers, Angus


Radiation clip.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Radiation clip.mp3
 Filesize:  674.5 KB
 Downloaded:  469 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don´t have a G2, so I cannot make a patch for you.. uh.. and it is very tempting to let you just struggle with that one... Very Happy

Those sounds there used to be called "dikmiks". You can Goodle DikMik and Hawkwind.
These are fairly easy to set up on the VCS, the AKS, the 2600, the Cat or the MS 20. There used to be a patch sheet called "space ripples" for the 2600 which pretty much was a basic patch for this kind of sound.

Less acid and h.. and a higher percentage of weed willl point you in the direction of Gong.. and this was also one of Moonweed´s signature synth patches.. Try Google Moonweed and Gong.


Wink

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
King Rat



Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 98
Location: London
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK - will have a look around. I'm pretty clueless about this type of sound - there are a few factory patches which are in the same sort of genre, but they all use the DX modules which I totally don't understand!
Angus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a square wave modulating a high Q filter, with some delay and an envelope control sweep. Here is something that is pretty similar. Not exactly what you want but pretty close I think.

Maybe a place to start.


dikmik.jpg
 Description:
dikmik patch
 Filesize:  67.99 KB
 Viewed:  12789 Time(s)

dikmik.jpg



dikmik_of_sorts.pch2
 Description:
An example of a dikmik, sorta...

Download
 Filename:  dikmik_of_sorts.pch2
 Filesize:  1.41 KB
 Downloaded:  1236 Time(s)


_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 138

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The basic ingredience of this sound is a complex multifx..
There is stereo delay, reverb and stereophasing involved in that multi fx...

The sound itself is a strong sounding resonant filter on noise with envelope and lfo modulations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 138

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Sounds like a square wave modulating a high Q filter, with some delay and an envelope control sweep. Here is something that is pretty similar. Not exactly what you want but pretty close I think.

Maybe a place to start.


ups Smile...Mosc answered just while i was writing ...

Could well be a square on the filter...i just wanted to point to that what atracts you on this sound is maybe it´s spaceinous journey and not what the synth is doing.

Its sometimes amazing how little noisy bleeps develop with some fx on...
never judge a sound before you had it on the desk with some fx on...

So just to prevent you from beeing un satisfied with the G2..fx are involved.
The G2 can handle it. But building an fx algorythm that is working so smooth and present is quite some work.

In the realworld i would expect the TC fireworks beeing responsible for this fx.. But could be an eventide or a group of fx units aswell.
A studio fx rack is quite the same as a modular synth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a kind of "70s space music" patch that was used all over the place. As such it was a typical zero state for a synth set up for various spacy effects. When you finally get the patch right you will see that translated to a typical semimodular or mono/duo phonic synth of the 70s you will have direct access to wide range of wonderful chirps and rippling sweeps.

I reckon it would be easier to understand the patch if you actually look to the actual layout of any of these synths. The 70s SH Rolands weren´t suitable for these patches. The filters weren´t wild enough.

On some synths there were spring reverbs and you would of course use that one.. and the echo would be Roland Space echoes.. or.. the hobbyist reel-to-reel tape decks with sound on sound echo. Some of the Tandberg decks like the TD 3500 were wonderful. these had a "bug" which resulted in a wonderful stereo echo thinge.

A phaser could be just fine. A mono phaser could be put on the input of the TD 3500 and the resulting stereo echo would be simply mindblowing. When phasing such a patch like this one it would often help to have some subtle spring reverb rattlish noise ringing. That extra noise added enough wideband juice to the signal to really let the phasing and the echo be effective. However, the spring reverb could also be a major PITA.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 138

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
A mono phaser could be put on the input of the TD 3500 and the resulting stereo echo would be simply mindblowing.


In this sound i rather hear a stereo phase behind the delay fx with mod 180 degrees distant...at least it reminds me much to what my mutronphasor did..
Stupid me..why i ve sold this one ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
King Rat



Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 98
Location: London
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow - quick replies
I was busy working on this [attached - not a million miles off but a sounds a bit rubbish lower down] but I'll go back and revisit some of these ideas (not that I understand any of the technical jargon - I just spend hours adding in modules and switching them on and off to see what they do!!)
Messed around with the shape of the LFO a bit to get the right amount of bite and distinction on each "bleep" without sounding too clicky. Also assigned some params to the mod wheel so you can mess around with the sound when it reaches lower registers.
Angus


Words with Dead.pch2
 Description:
spacey ripple patch

Download
 Filename:  Words with Dead.pch2
 Filesize:  1.9 KB
 Downloaded:  749 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This LP was probably one of the best examples back then of such patches. Tim Blake doesn´t quite take the dikmik into stars.. but a lot of the patches in there are pretty much the same one that generates the dikmik as heard in mp3 example in the first post. The parameters are just slightly different. Basic routing is the same.

Trivia: this wonderful LP, now rereleased on CD, is pretty much recorded live.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
King Rat



Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 98
Location: London
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This was a similar thing I attempted a while back, using a note quant module.


Seeker bleeps.pch2
 Description:
more spacey bleepy stuff...

Download
 Filename:  Seeker bleeps.pch2
 Filesize:  1.91 KB
 Downloaded:  714 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are off to a good start now. Mix that in on top of noisey voice, lots of noise, distortion and tons or reverb and you'll have it.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
In this sound i rather hear a stereo phase behind the delay fx with mod 180 degrees distant...at least it reminds me much to what my mutronphasor did..


Sure. I am not really referring to the mp3 example on a 1:1 basis, but to this patch in classic terms. You know, much like you would a synced lead voice with a tail of echo.. controlled by footpedals.. and then smurfed into a filterbank stepped by the Phonosonics sequencer rack. The same basic patch could result in a lot of seriously different wild stuff.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: No idea where to start! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is what I would probably use as a starting point.

Fast sine lfo on a sinewave, plus another slow lfo or AD env for that large sweep, plus a little modulation of the fast lfo on the VCA. Play with the speed of the slow lfo and echo level for effect. But be sure to first hit that moonweed... Wink

Some extra tape echo comes closest to a late sixties type sound and a spring reverb to an early seventies type sound. The big Accutronics number nine springtank is my advice.


SpaceyRipples.pch2
 Description:
Rob's space ripples

Download
 Filename:  SpaceyRipples.pch2
 Filesize:  1.84 KB
 Downloaded:  871 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Look at the innards of Rob's patch kiddies - in there is that old Revox A77 tape echo thingie just you. Very Happy love

Thanks, Rob.

Thingie? Gasp, I'm becoming a Norwegian. Shocked Not bad, actually. Cool

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool Not bad at all
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Look at the innards of Rob's patch kiddies - in there is that old Revox A77 tape echo thingie just you. Very Happy love


I put the Revox A77 pingpong echo in the building blocks section at http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-7442.html.

Should run on the demo software. And some sort of dikke mikmak dingetje in the voice section. That's sort of the dutch translation for fat dikmik thingie... Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great, Rob. It's a great patch - both useful for musicial purposes and very educational. Next time I do a Krellian piece, I'll be sure to use this. I'm user the original composers used Ampex machines for tape echoes, but it those days the obsession with branding was not so intense as it is now. Laughing
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I'm user the original composers used Ampex machines for tape echoes, but it those days the obsession with branding was not so intense as it is now. Laughing


Well, over here on the European continent the Revox A77 was all over the place. In fact, when someone referred to an Ampex machine it invariably meant a machine to transfer film to video for direct broadcasting.

I guess the sixties and seventies was much more local markets.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes nice thread folks.
Very educational too like you said mosc.
I have always liked these patches and had never heard of this
dikmik thing as its called & learning how to patch it is all the more fun.
I also wanted to say I like every one of these example patches! Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the dikmik patch itself is not really invented by the Dik Mik , the soundengineer of the UK space rock group Hawkwind. However, back then Hawkwind and Gong were probably two of the most trendsetting groups around regarding the use of soundeffects and synth noises.

Tim Blake ( Gong and Hawkwind ) http://www.dprp.net/forgotten/timblake/

The early Hawkwind

Michael Moorcock says:
Quote:
What I liked about Hawkwind was that it was like a mad spaceship with everybody jamming things in to see what would happen. Half of it was DikMik just finding out what would happen with the synthesizer, and Nik used to have his captain's cap at the time, he doesn't wear it much now but he used to have this captain's or seaman's white cap and he looked very good 'doing that' ..(chuckles).. So I sort of went up to a few gigs.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:
Well, over here on the European continent the Revox A77 was all over the place. In fact, when someone referred to an Ampex machine it invariably meant a machine to transfer film to video for direct broadcasting.

I guess the sixties and seventies was much more local markets.


I think so too. Of course we also had Tandberg and Ferrograph, and also all the consumer brands offering reel to reel decks with sounds on sound and whatever. Braun, Phillips .. uh.. and others. Akai and Sopny came in early in the 70s and then they started to sell the Teac decks in big numbers. And we also had the Agfa and the BASF studio decks.. huge nasty things on wheels..
Over here "Ampex" usually meant either tapes or video gear.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I was thinking of the 50s when Bebe and Louis Barron made the score for Forbidden Planet. I would bet they used Ampex tape recorders on that one.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [23 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use