Every now and then...

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: Every now and then...

Every now and then they try it again...

link

I see he's missing moore the 3000 Very Happy

Wout

v-un-v · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:55 am Post subject:

Wout, I think it's time to blow the ebay-whistle on him?- or demand that we get the profits so we can buy more coffee:)

Will you do it or shall I?

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:12 am Post subject:

Please do. Dunno about you, but I only have 500 grams of Lavazza left .. I need more supplies.. now! Shocked

v-un-v · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: gotcha!

I've sent this as a personal message;

Hello. I am writing to you on behalf of electro-music.com forum which holds the majority of programmers for the Clavia Nord Modular 1 and G2 modular synthesizers. 23,000 patches? that's a lot of patches to program yourself. If you can prove that this is your own work- please ignore this message. However, if this is NOT your own work, then I have no alternative but to report this as infringment of copywrite and will have to take necessary steps to recover all monies profited from this- ie legal action, and also report you to ebay.

yours sincerely

Tom Fenn (on behalf of electro-music.com)

If there is no change, then lets take this matter further? It may be a good idea to make it easier to find the whole archive- which should help prevent this from hapenning in future?

best wishes to all NM1 +2 programmers!

Tom :-)

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:58 am Post subject:

Excellent! So.. where is the more coffee!!

?

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:03 am Post subject:

Hmm.. we should do something about the old NM-1 stuff.

mosc · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:

I appreciate your feeling about this, but please, anyone, don't write letters as a representative of or on behalf of electro-music.com. I make this request as the sole registered owner of this site. If you want to write as an individual or behalf of the Nord Modular users community, that's fine, but not as electro-music.com. Thanks...

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:07 am Post subject:

Hmm.. true.. Embarassed

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: Re: gotcha!

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:59 am Post subject:

You are right. We should look into this ... soon..
Very Happy

mosc · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:17 am Post subject:

What link should we publicize?

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:48 am Post subject:

Free? Yes, but why not phrasing this a bit differently. That link at Clavia´s should rather point to some artcle page here which outlines what is where and why.

blue hell · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:17 am Post subject:

This publishing idea put up by Wout appeals to me.

Still with freeware it's not uncommon to allow people to burn it on CDs and to then sell those CDs for a reasonable price for the work done on burning. In this case I think 7. something euro might be a reasonable price.

Otoh, I only had a quick look at the ebay link (as I'm supposed to be working I guess, at work I mean), and I didn't notice any crediting which would have been appropriate.

Does anyone remeber what was done last time when someone sold patch CDs ? In my memory the person in question was asked to refer to the source of the material, which after some debate he could go along with. But it's quite a while ago, my memories might be distorted.

The Nord Modular list nowadays has a trailer text saying that it is not allowed for people to use patches without asking the creators for allowance. But this has not always been the case, wasn't this text put up after a previous incident with someone selling patches on CD ? And what do the archiving webpages say about this ? (edit: I now know, it says nothing ...)

Just some thoughts :-)

Kassen · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject:

Ok, so there seems to be a tendency for people to dislike this.

I'm realy starting to wonder what exactly is wrong with it and why. Why do those people share those patches? I think it's quite strange to first share them, then include a tag that they can't be used without asking. What's the intention of the sharing then?

Also, this cd costs 5 pounds. How large is the market for it? The market as I see it is limited to a maximum of the amount ot he NM owners but we have to substract some groups. We need to substract all the studios that have a NM as a status symbol but don't use it except for the occasional factory preset, we need to substract the people that only use their own work, we need to substract the people that are on EM and can download everything they need. Of what is left we only need to considder those people that look on Ebay. How many people exactly is this? 10? 50? Is that worth a third threat here already?

I'm also baffled by some of the comments here. Do we know for a fact that the majority of NM users are registered here? Do we know so much about the non-registered patchers that we can require people to prove they did a certain patch? I think that's a rather large step, asuming guild and reversing the burden of proof is diametrically oposed to what most (all?) western cultures see as "just". I don't like this aditude, I don't like this idea that there are a few people who patch and that we all know all of them, that all patches ever done are catalogued and that for any given collection we can say how many are missing. This is getting dangerously close to a established "correct" canon, a aditude I thought was limited to the G2 and it's users. For one thing; I've been patching since the beginning and aside from 10 or so jokes and examples I *never* shared anything and aside from about as many patches brought to my atention by others I never downloaded either, I just never saw the point, it seemed at odds with the idea of making a patch for the occasion, of staying flexible. There's some chance there are more people like me, perhaps there are even many more uncatalogued patches then there are catalogued ones.

Why "should" there be a certain link on the Clavia page to this archive? Why should that link say the patches are "free"? "free" in what sense? Who determines this?

I think it's time people considered why people did share their patches, what they wanted to acomplish with this and how this cd conflicts with that if it does.

Much like I think mruder and procreation are oposite sides of the same coin and should be treated with equal weight I think sharing patches and using presets are closely linked. For this reason alone I'd like to know why people do it. Once people figure out what it is that they want a list can be made of what can be done with patches, if need be on a patch by patch basis, and after that we could see wether or not this cd conflicts with those desires and if so wether it does so to a degree that nesecitates action.

This like it is is just plain nonsense. There is a cd (well, one guy claims there is, it could be a scam) that holds a lot of patches. There are some other people that have a archive of patches. Who is to say he copied from that archive? Do we even know for a fact that every patch that's in that archive is there because it's creator wants it to be there?

What Mosc sais here makes a lot of sense to me; not everybody on EM shares patches and not everybody who's sharing patches is on EM. I think it's a great idea to have clarity about the archive but that would mean that the people who's patches are in it would need to agree about what can be done with it first.

Axiom · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:

If can I give a small suggestion, it is about Creative Common license. I've adopted it for Progsounds and all content published, unless specified, are protected under this license. You can choose a "some right reserved" one with the option to "not for commercial use". In this way you can protect legally this material.

Luca

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject:

Well, Kassen, in the first place I never wrote the guy was doing something wrong. See it like this: I'll copy and past all text from this forum, print it out and hold together by some 'Heftklammen' I try to sell it on e-bay. Something like 'All the interesting stuff about Electronic Music there is to know". I'm not doing anything wrong sure. But there is something not completely right either...
As you know I've done this already by making the 'Interesting Threads' pages in the Archive. But I leave it on the Net, for all to share.

I just posted, because I'm amused they try it every now and then.

Why a link at Clavia? Because the Archive is a spin-off from their 'free-sounds-page'. Once Neil Bradley and I put up a FTP site, containing Patches, Clavia didn't received any entries, at least, they said. I'm convinced they were thinking: "Well, not our problem anymore."
That link is only to show people where to get those Patches.

What people like is a little feedback, that's all. My infamous Patch 'AeolusHarp' was used several times and I was pleased to hear it in a song/composition.

BTW there is one Patch made by you in the Archive, named "doesn't work" Sorry, just joking and 'sarren' (Dutch slang)

Wout

devilfish · Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: uk

Hello!

just to introduce myself i am the EBAY seller who lists Nord modular patches.

A few things.

The patches i have for sale have indeed been harvested from the internet over several years.

BUT all of them have been opened in the editor.

I have written several software tools in VB to sort and catagorise the patches according to several criteria, and to provide me with several useful functions Wink

- - - - this is what you are paying for!

As far as copyright of the individual patches is concerned, ALL THE PATCHES ARE MARKED WITH MY COPYRIGHT.

As there are a finite number of combinations of the modules in the editor any similarities with patches contained anywhere else is purely coincidental, Besides you cannot copyright module configurations!!!!

I will be amending my ebay advert to show this.

So if you have any further doubts about the source of my patches please feel free to purchase a cd.

click here

If your a registered user here ill even knock a quid off the purchase price.

Pleas keep an eye on my ebay page as i will soon have a G2 patch cd available again for the low low low price of £5 + P&P

Thanks

Devilfish Twisted Evil

PS why don't you just chill and write some music? or have you got nothing better to do than winge? or is it a lack of any talent??

PPS thanks for the support of some of your members.

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:20 pm Post subject:

Wout

v-un-v · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject:

devilfish · Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: uk

no hard feelings ... ill BUY you a JAR of instant coffee from my huge earnings on this listing.......

Twisted Evil

Devilfish

Wout Blommers · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:

devilfish · Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: uk

Like i said all patches have been opened in an editor, and marked with my copyright (as much as that is worth).

if i was to download one of "your" patches and move only one knob that patch would become "mine" as it is not the same.

i'm failing to understand what people are thinking i'm stealing?

Also would the site owner like to comment on the fact that his members are purporting to represent him? by sending emails to me with a rude and agressive tone? is this right?

Thanks.

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject:

I am locking this thread now. I think we have everything we need in here right now.

If continuing this topic feels right.. then please start a new one.

I think it is wonderful we got Mr. DevilFish over here in order to confirm the lot and we now have several statements explaining how the lot of patches have been rebranded by him. Thank you.
Laughing