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Kookoo
Joined: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Austin, TX, USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject:
Tube amps, warmth, and harmonic distortion |
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I've always wondered about the technical differences that cause a sound difference between tube amps and solid-state amps, and if those people who swear that tubes and tapes sound better than transistors and bits are just zealots or if they're right.
I found some excellent resources that explain the differences between tubes and transistors, which lead me to a better understanding of how to get more punch and warmth when doing recording and mixing in an all-digital environment. I'm still not sure about some things, but it's a start at least.
http://milbert.com/tstxt.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_sound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccuum_tube
The things that really blew my mind were the explanations of how vaccuum tubes work, and the coloration differences between tubes and transistors.
I did some experimenting with a 1kHz test tone, some free saturation and tube-modelling VST plugins, and a sonogram. The test tone generator comes from the ndc pack, the tube modeller comes from Voxengo, and the saturation plugins were the default Ableton Live saturator as well as another one I found on kvr.
The voxengo tubeamp plugin was the only one that was properly able to generate a good second harmonic (i.e. 2kHz) for the test tone. When driven harder, it could eventually come out with a fourth (i.e. 4kHz) also, but not without getting a third (i.e. 3kHz...etc) in there too. All the saturator settings and presets I tried could only either generate odd (i.e. 3kHz etc) or could only generate all harmonics (2k, 3k, 4k, 5k, etc). And which harmonics were emphasized was very different between the saturators and the tubeamp.
There was one weird anomaly that is creating a doubt in my mind about whether I really understand this or not... the tubeamp preset called "Only Even Harmonics" only actually generated what I understand to be ODD harmonics (3k, 5k, 7k, etc). Either I don't understand something or the preset is named incorrectly, since for a 1kHz tone it seems like 2k, 4k etc are even.
All in all, the tubeamp plugin sounded way better at warming than anything else I found, and it drove up to +10db with a nicer tone. At first I couldn't hear the difference that the sonogram was indicating. So I EQed the output of the amp to remove the 1kHz base tone and cranked it up so I could hear only the harmonics. That was when things really started to click for my ear. After spending some time listening to those harmonics, I could really hear them pretty easily with the EQ disabled, and started to audibly appreciate the difference between "warm" and "muddy and warm". And then when I put the tubeamp on Battery with a fairly dynamic jazz drum kit sequence it really sounded good. And I knew why this time
So, anyway, I'm sure for some of you this is not news. But I thought anyone else who's like me might find it really interesting and useful. I welcome any corrections or comments from you grizzled veterans out there. |
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paul e.
Joined: Sep 22, 2003 Posts: 1567 Location: toronto, canada
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject:
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makes sense to me !
elektro 80 will probably be able to say more about this subject _________________ Spiral Recordings |
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
Audio files: 14
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject:
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Huh? I was writing a post in this other thread about preamps and then suddenly the Kookoo post was gone
Seems like Kookoo started a new thread.
My other post disapperead in the mess, and right now I going to try to fix some grounding problems in my Ferrograph. I will have to get back to this tomorrow or so. This is an interesting subject though.
I am sure guys Rob, Kassen and Morbius will have a lot of stuff to say about this. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Kookoo
Joined: Nov 20, 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Austin, TX, USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | Huh? I was writing a post in this other thread about preamps and then suddenly the Kookoo post was gone
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Heh, oops Shortly after making the other post I realized that it was misguided and that I already knew the answer... sorry about that, I didn't think it had been there long enough for someone to reply to. |
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seraph
Editor
Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:51 am Post subject:
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Kookoo wrote: | I didn't think it had been there long enough for someone to reply to. |
never underestimate electro-music.com users. we are fast _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:21 am Post subject:
Re: Tube amps, warmth, and harmonic distortion |
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Kookoo wrote: | the tubeamp preset called "Only Even Harmonics" only actually generated what I understand to be ODD harmonics (3k, 5k, 7k, etc). Either I don't understand something or the preset is named incorrectly, since for a 1kHz tone it seems like 2k, 4k etc are even.
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If the fundamental is 1K then 2K is the 1st harmonic, making it odd?
Is this a standard of does it vary internationally like high rise floor numbering? |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:05 am Post subject:
Re: Tube amps, warmth, and harmonic distortion |
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g2ian wrote: |
If the fundamental is 1K then 2K is the 1st harmonic, making it odd?
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afaik no. If the fundamental is 1K then 1K is the 1st harmonic, partial, whatever... _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:38 am Post subject:
Re: Tube amps, warmth, and harmonic distortion |
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seraph wrote: |
afaik no. If the fundamental is 1K then 1K is the 1st harmonic, partial, whatever... |
Yes, But 2k is the first overtone, that might confuse things a bit. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:41 am Post subject:
Re: Tube amps, warmth, and harmonic distortion |
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Blue Hell wrote: | seraph wrote: |
afaik no. If the fundamental is 1K then 1K is the 1st harmonic, partial, whatever... |
Yes, But 2k is the first overtone, that might confuse things a bit. |
that's exactly why I would avoid using that word. All upper components of a sound are "partials". the ones in harmonic relationship to the fundamental are also called harmonics, so every harmonic is a partial but not all partials are harmonics. _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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