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Is Berliner Schule a perfect name for....
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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Is Berliner Schule a perfect name for.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electronic music with sequencers and analogue sounds. Quite a few musicians use this name to describe their electronic music. Well know artitsts of this style are: Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Ashra Tempel. Music from the Golden Era of electronic music, that is the 70-ties.

What do you think?

I don't think its the best name, but at the other hand I can't think of something else either.

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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well named, although I think one could take sequencers and analogue sounds and have it sound totally different than what you are implying. I think your definition would have to include more. I think the key is the sequencing, but if you were to give me a sequencer and a modular, I wouldn't produce Berlin. There seems to be a particular tone and mood, as well as an intricate, but slowly evolving number layers produced via the sequencers. I find it very bold. However, I am not a big fan of Berlin, but I am in awe and respectful for the work involved in creating tracks of that genre. And yet, there are some performers of Berlin that I enjoy. TD and Klause are not among them.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmmmm, that description would also fit Acid or Raymond Scott. I don't nesicarily object to that because on a compositional level Acid is often quite similar to those typical sequencer based styles that you mention but clearly Acid isn't seen as a part of the Berliner Schule.

Another question I have is wether the 70's can realy be seen as the "golden age". Isn't that a very depressing view? To me the golden age is perpetually right around the corner. We still have the technologies we had back then and now we have a lot more to boot. Personally I'm more attached to the 60's recording that I own then to the 70's material,

I think you are aiming at the virtues of music that's based on sequencers yet not aimed at the dancefloor. I agree that it's usefull to be able to define that field and clearly you like it but to me it's more interesting to look at what it is that apeals there then it is to pick a name. Frankly I'm not so sure where you want to go with this topic.

For example, Rene, what do you feel is good about that style that is lacking in dancefloor tracks that employ similar methods?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Space music seems to be another term for this style of music. Some people have used the term sleep music too.
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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would disagree. I don't think of Tangerine Dream as Space Music. Serrie would be Space Music to my ears. He's got arps going but no heavy-handed sequencers ala TD.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mark, there are lots of places where TD and KS don't run sequencers in their music at all. Is that part of the music not Berlin Schule? Jonn Serrie does not play just one style either.

Arpegiators are very much like sequencers. There are times when one couldn't tell the difference.

But, it is true, there are people who are really into these musical styles. There is a great deal of established stylistic practice - almost to the point of orthodoxy. Although I've been an a space music band for three years, I'm not that into these styles so much as to differentiate them so precisely. I defer to others more knowledgeble.

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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think Berlin is marked by heavy-handed sequencer and arp use. The sequence is the skeleton on which everything else hangs. Melodies and solos are secondary to the sequence. The sequence is the primary source of rhythm and chord progression. It's this branch which I believe would not be considered space music. Serrie tends to use his arps as chrome and dressing. His pads and their progressions tend to be the main support of his space music. His rhythm is further back in the mix.

I'm not quite sure what constitutes space music. I used to think Michael and I made space music, but i'm not so sure about that anymore. Perhaps we were more space music-ish a year ago. I feel we go in and out of it during a set. But for me, space music is more difficult to define than Berlin Schule.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mohoyoho wrote:
I think Berlin is marked by heavy-handed sequencer and arp use. The sequence is the skeleton on which everything else hangs. Melodies and solos are secondary to the sequence. The sequence is the primary source of rhythm and chord progression. It's this branch which I believe would not be considered space music.


The exact same holds true for acid.

Another way in which these artists are more similar to acid or -say- Kraftwerk then to earlier more classically electronic artists like Scott is that the musical gestures used come directly from the features of new instruments that came on the market instead of the devices being used following musical ideas like in the work of Scott.

To me artists like that are like DJ's except on a higher level. DJ's make collages out of existing pieces while artists like that make compositions out of pre-fabricated musical strucures (implied in the feature set of their instruments).

The emphasis is on the behaviour of the instrument, more so then on directly playing notes, yet defining this behaviour isn't a part of the expression¹ like -for example- in the work of the Barons. To me this is virtually identical to early 90's techno/house/whatever. I still don't see what sets this music apart or why the 70's should be seen as the "golden age".

¹though instrument choice obviously is.

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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Mark, there are lots of places where TD and KS don't run sequencers in their music at all. Is that part of the music not Berlin Schule? Jonn Serrie does not play just one style either.

Arpegiators are very much like sequencers. There are times when one couldn't tell the difference.

But, it is true, there are people who are really into these musical styles. There is a great deal of established stylistic practice - almost to the point of orthodoxy. Although I've been an a space music band for three years, I'm not that into these styles so much as to differentiate them so precisely. I defer to others more knowledgeble.


This is true for the Richochet album, i believe. On both tracks you hear the very-good playing (i think Bauman) along with the sequencers of Franke. I think of this because you hear more different notes in that sequence that those Moog sequencers could store.

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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
For example, Rene, what do you feel is good about that style that is lacking in dancefloor tracks that employ similar methods?


What do you mean precisely? The arpeggio's in those dancetracks. I don't listen much to dancemusic. It's not a dislike, but I don't buy dance-albums. And downloading them is a pity.

In the past I heard some work of some Dutch famous DJ's. I heard some interesting arpeggio's. I think that the Danish band "Safari Duo" does well on that. I have got their album 3.0

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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mohoyoho wrote:
I think Berlin is marked by heavy-handed sequencer and arp use. The sequence is the skeleton on which everything else hangs. Melodies and solos are secondary to the sequence. The sequence is the primary source of rhythm and chord progression. It's this branch which I believe would not be considered space music. Serrie tends to use his arps as chrome and dressing. His pads and their progressions tend to be the main support of his space music. His rhythm is further back in the mix.


I agree on this. If the sequence's are interesting and layered in 3 different parts, then you get some interesting harmony and has the solo a less vibrating role.

But this is difficult to do. In other styles of music one can use some interesting progressive chords. A sequence or arpeggio can take that over. But what I hear a lot of times, is randomly chosen sequences. This can be very interesting but also very boring. Mostly the latter is the case.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

renevanderwouden wrote:

What do you mean precisely?


Well, if youare going to call the 70's the "golden age" I think it would be usefull to pinpoint exactly what is so great about thosespeciffic pieces that is lacking elsewhere.

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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not my Golden Age. It's something generally said. I personally don't agree
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've noticed that with popular music, and I consider TD popular music, people tend to think of the music that was popular when they first became enthusiastic about music (usually their teen years) to be the Golden Age of music. I think this is because in adolesence music provides utility in discovering one's identity.
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renevanderwouden



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's true. The recording industry knows this and makes some money with that knowledge.
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