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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:17 am Post subject:
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Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't want to use an Apple laptop to run XP because:
1, there is no backspace key (only delete)
2, the mouse pad thing only has one button.
I'm baseing this on my PowerBook G4. If they have fixed this on the new machines, i would happily stand corrected. _________________ --Howard
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:
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In my experience Mac and PC pad-thingies have the exact same problem; they're not a Razor Boomslang. I find this to be a serious design issue.
_________________ Kassen |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't want to use an Apple laptop to run XP because:
1, there is no backspace key (only delete) |
Just you try the arrow buttons..
mosc wrote: | 2, the mouse pad thing only has one button.
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THis is hardly a problem because you would of course be tuned to using old terminal/text oriented OSes and the mac has always had shortcuts all over place anyway.. and OS X is still tuned for old geeks. Just like way back you can still directly hack the system for even more shortcuts.
The standard tool for hacking interfaces way back in pre OS X days was using tools like ResEdit and it is even more simpler now.
Try learning to use the various combos of the alt shift apple ctrl keys. Even Windows started to deliver access to such functions way back. This is much faster than using the plain GUI approach anyway.
And I have been using various umpteen button mice from vendors like Logitech for more tham 16 years anyway. Apple has always left certain stuff for the 3rd party vendors. The various mac OSes have been supproting this for ages even though Apple has only bundled a one button mouse. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject:
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A delete key is different from a backspace - one deletes the char to the left of the cursor and one deletes the one to the right. Without a backspace key, you have to use the arrow and then the delete key - an extra press.
Using a third party mouse is fine, but on a laptop who wants to carry a mouse around. Using a key and a click is a pain, but I've learned to do it, of course.
If you are going to run OSX on the laptop - I guess you have not much choice, but if you are going to run XP there are so many fine ones to choose from. _________________ --Howard
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | ...on a laptop who wants to carry a mouse around... |
I do but rarely use it _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:40 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | .. deletes the char to the left of the cursor and one deletes the one to the right. Without a backspace key, you have to use the arrow and then the delete key - an extra press. |
It is called forward delete _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:14 am Post subject:
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These little preferences are very personal but people feel very strongly about them. I used to work for IBM. They would of course give their employees ThinkPads which have that little stick pointer thingie. I personally love those things, but some people hate. These people would ask if instead of a ThinkPad, they could get a voucher to buy some other laptop with a mouse/pointer they liked. This was a career limiting move, but it showed me how stongly peoples' preferences are. _________________ --Howard
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:31 am Post subject:
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I love the two-finger scrolling function of the mac pads.
Regarding IBM: they have removed the windows button on their laptops, which are distributed among personnel at the place I work, which is very annoying. I have grown dependant on the shortcuts for explorer (Windows-E), run command (Windows-R), and show desktop (Windows-M), and that's horrible to lose.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:45 am Post subject:
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Two finger scrolling is a software feature, so if you are using a MacBook for XP, it won't be available, unless there is some XP app that enables this. I've never tried that on my PowerBook. Maybe I should give it a try. Never use the Window key on XP either. Maybe I should give that a try too. Thanks...
EDIT - my PowerBook doesn't have two finger scrolling. Is there somewhere where this is descriped - what it is? I can see lot's of drivers to install to make older PowerBooks and iBooks have this feature. _________________ --Howard
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:05 am Post subject:
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Doesn't Apple suport [ctrl+h] for backspace? I think it should, being a *Nix and all? I just noticed Firefox binds this to "open history panel", that's silly.
About pointers; Hotkeys are nice and the fastest way to deal with a computer if you have two hands to spare but in a studio where you record yourself that's a rarity (at least for me). I use a five button mouse that has support for binding arbitary keys (or combos or macros...) to any button, newer verion have seven buttons.
Personally I find that in the studio it works better to borrow interfaces from gamers then it does to borrow them from more general computing concepts; gamers are used to doing a lot of things at the same time in a timing sensitive way. True; with alt (does it have two different alts like the Dutch IBM-compatible layout?), apple, shift and ctrl you have 4 or 5 modifiers so 16 or 32 ways of clicking the single mouse button but those require two hands which would be very inconventient if you would also like to play a sperate controler or instrument.
To me joypads are a much better idea. My current one has 16 buttons and 4 analogue axis, this enables me to perform most tasks without switching hand positions and without the need to sit at a table.
Anyway, with the way Mac OS works, wouldn't it be trivial to hook the HID device that the pad is to the OS's interface hooks in some different way then what the standard driver does? By reading the pad based on regions and with the aid of a permanent marker you should be able to get 4 or 5 mouse buttons that would be controlable with a single hand. _________________ Kassen |
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | Doesn't Apple suport [ctrl+h] for backspace? I think it should, being a *Nix and all? |
Nope...
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Anyway, with the way Mac OS works, wouldn't it be trivial to hook the HID device that the pad is to the OS's interface hooks in some different way then what the standard driver does? By reading the pad based on regions and with the aid of a permanent marker you should be able to get 4 or 5 mouse buttons that would be controlable with a single hand. |
I have found nothing is trival on OSX unless Apple has supplied a graphical control to do it. _________________ --Howard
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject:
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Ok, but at least you could remap a key to go "backspace", I suppose.
Apple does provide some graphical interfaces for system level stuff that go quite far. Stein showed me this thingy called "Quartz composer" which I like. Basically it's supposed to be something a bit like PD or MAX that deals with the graphical stuff. It's supposed to be free (as in beer) and I think that one is hot. That one means "3d graphical interfaces for homebrew stuff" so there migtbesomething similar that deals with input and output? Stein?
I find the pad ok for browsing but I cary a mouse with my Windows laptop too so I don't see that issue as a big deal. I have less issues with the pad then with those small "puck" mice, I'm a big guy with big hands so I want a big mouse. _________________ Kassen |
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject:
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Nope control-H is application dependent, it appears...
This topic is about a review that says the MacBook excels at Windows. Excels, compared to what? I'm just saying without a two button mouse pad with a scroller of some sort and a backspace key, one could argue that an HP laptop or any of many other brands would excel at Windows better.
True, you could use any external keyboard and mouse device, you can do that with any computer, but I like to carry just the laptop. _________________ --Howard
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: |
This topic is about a review that says the MacBook excels at Windows. Excels, compared to what? I'm just saying without a two button mouse pad with a scroller of some sort and a backspace key, one could argue that an HP laptop or any of many other brands would excel at Windows better.
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Yes, that bit makes no sense. Of cource it's going to run Windows nicely at those specs but at that price it's a bit silly. You could get two brandless laptops with similar specs (except with pcmcia slots) at that price. It doesn't realy makes sense to run anything but OSX on one of those. Maybe people want Windows dual boots for games or something? _________________ Kassen |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:00 am Post subject:
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forward delete is fn + delete on Apple laptops with an fn button.. and this is pretty much all powerbooks and of course the MB and the MBP too.
Did you ever read the docs?
This is a contextual mapping thingie and is active in all text entry fields globally no matter what ( ...if the application uses the OS provided mapping table.. and this of course is dependant on the software developer´s´sanity and sense of humour ). _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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paul e.
Joined: Sep 22, 2003 Posts: 1567 Location: toronto, canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:
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the qualitative diifferences between the two OS's are still more substantial than mere keyboard and mousing mappings....
i hope that wasn't too controversial hehe _________________ Spiral Recordings |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject:
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Clearly, but if you want to run OSX (legally) you are stuck using Apple hardware meaning a Apple keyboard (in the case of laptops)... Still, I agree that a more thorough benchmark would be better.
The new Mac laptops are nicely standardised and can run OSX, Windows and Linux, It'd be nice to see some real benchmarks on OS performance now. _________________ Kassen |
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gomidas
Joined: Jul 09, 2004 Posts: 365 Location: La Ciotat, France
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:01 am Post subject:
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...and have you seen this one _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject:
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seraph wrote: | ...and have you seen this one |
Yeah, saw it running nicely in person months ago but I stoped using warez. _________________ Kassen |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:24 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | my PowerBook doesn't have two finger scrolling. Is there somewhere where this is descriped - what it is? |
I don't know if "two finger scrolling" is the official term. When you put two fingers on the macbook pad and move both fingers in tandem, it acts like a two-dimensional scrolling wheel. It took me a while to figure out that you have to move both fingers, not just rest one and move the other.
/Stefan (currently slow to respond on e-m.com) _________________ Antimon's Window
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