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 Forum index » News... » Apple Computers
Review: MacBook excels at Windows, OS X
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seraph
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Review: MacBook excels at Windows, OS X Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Apple Computer Inc.'s latest laptop looks sleek, runs fast and should give makers of Windows-based notebooks considerable cause for concern...


arrow http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/ap_on_hi_te/techtest_macbook

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't want to use an Apple laptop to run XP because:

1, there is no backspace key (only delete)
2, the mouse pad thing only has one button.

I'm baseing this on my PowerBook G4. If they have fixed this on the new machines, i would happily stand corrected.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In my experience Mac and PC pad-thingies have the exact same problem; they're not a Razor Boomslang. I find this to be a serious design issue.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't want to use an Apple laptop to run XP because:

1, there is no backspace key (only delete)


Just you try the arrow buttons.. Very Happy

mosc wrote:
2, the mouse pad thing only has one button.



THis is hardly a problem because you would of course be tuned to using old terminal/text oriented OSes and the mac has always had shortcuts all over place anyway.. and OS X is still tuned for old geeks. Just like way back you can still directly hack the system for even more shortcuts.
The standard tool for hacking interfaces way back in pre OS X days was using tools like ResEdit and it is even more simpler now.

Try learning to use the various combos of the alt shift apple ctrl keys. Even Windows started to deliver access to such functions way back. This is much faster than using the plain GUI approach anyway.
And I have been using various umpteen button mice from vendors like Logitech for more tham 16 years anyway. Apple has always left certain stuff for the 3rd party vendors. The various mac OSes have been supproting this for ages even though Apple has only bundled a one button mouse.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A delete key is different from a backspace - one deletes the char to the left of the cursor and one deletes the one to the right. Without a backspace key, you have to use the arrow and then the delete key - an extra press.

Using a third party mouse is fine, but on a laptop who wants to carry a mouse around. Using a key and a click is a pain, but I've learned to do it, of course.

If you are going to run OSX on the laptop - I guess you have not much choice, but if you are going to run XP there are so many fine ones to choose from.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
...on a laptop who wants to carry a mouse around...

I do but rarely use it Shocked

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
.. deletes the char to the left of the cursor and one deletes the one to the right. Without a backspace key, you have to use the arrow and then the delete key - an extra press.


It is called forward delete Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These little preferences are very personal but people feel very strongly about them. I used to work for IBM. They would of course give their employees ThinkPads which have that little stick pointer thingie. I personally love those things, but some people hate. These people would ask if instead of a ThinkPad, they could get a voucher to buy some other laptop with a mouse/pointer they liked. This was a career limiting move, but it showed me how stongly peoples' preferences are.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I love the two-finger scrolling function of the mac pads.

Regarding IBM: they have removed the windows button on their laptops, which are distributed among personnel at the place I work, which is very annoying. I have grown dependant on the shortcuts for explorer (Windows-E), run command (Windows-R), and show desktop (Windows-M), and that's horrible to lose.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Two finger scrolling is a software feature, so if you are using a MacBook for XP, it won't be available, unless there is some XP app that enables this. I've never tried that on my PowerBook. Maybe I should give it a try. Never use the Window key on XP either. Maybe I should give that a try too. Thanks...

EDIT - my PowerBook doesn't have two finger scrolling. Is there somewhere where this is descriped - what it is? I can see lot's of drivers to install to make older PowerBooks and iBooks have this feature.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doesn't Apple suport [ctrl+h] for backspace? I think it should, being a *Nix and all? I just noticed Firefox binds this to "open history panel", that's silly.

About pointers; Hotkeys are nice and the fastest way to deal with a computer if you have two hands to spare but in a studio where you record yourself that's a rarity (at least for me). I use a five button mouse that has support for binding arbitary keys (or combos or macros...) to any button, newer verion have seven buttons.

Personally I find that in the studio it works better to borrow interfaces from gamers then it does to borrow them from more general computing concepts; gamers are used to doing a lot of things at the same time in a timing sensitive way. True; with alt (does it have two different alts like the Dutch IBM-compatible layout?), apple, shift and ctrl you have 4 or 5 modifiers so 16 or 32 ways of clicking the single mouse button but those require two hands which would be very inconventient if you would also like to play a sperate controler or instrument.

To me joypads are a much better idea. My current one has 16 buttons and 4 analogue axis, this enables me to perform most tasks without switching hand positions and without the need to sit at a table.

Anyway, with the way Mac OS works, wouldn't it be trivial to hook the HID device that the pad is to the OS's interface hooks in some different way then what the standard driver does? By reading the pad based on regions and with the aid of a permanent marker you should be able to get 4 or 5 mouse buttons that would be controlable with a single hand.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Doesn't Apple suport [ctrl+h] for backspace? I think it should, being a *Nix and all?


Nope...

Quote:

Anyway, with the way Mac OS works, wouldn't it be trivial to hook the HID device that the pad is to the OS's interface hooks in some different way then what the standard driver does? By reading the pad based on regions and with the aid of a permanent marker you should be able to get 4 or 5 mouse buttons that would be controlable with a single hand.

I have found nothing is trival on OSX unless Apple has supplied a graphical control to do it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, but at least you could remap a key to go "backspace", I suppose.

Apple does provide some graphical interfaces for system level stuff that go quite far. Stein showed me this thingy called "Quartz composer" which I like. Basically it's supposed to be something a bit like PD or MAX that deals with the graphical stuff. It's supposed to be free (as in beer) and I think that one is hot. That one means "3d graphical interfaces for homebrew stuff" so there migtbesomething similar that deals with input and output? Stein?

I find the pad ok for browsing but I cary a mouse with my Windows laptop too so I don't see that issue as a big deal. I have less issues with the pad then with those small "puck" mice, I'm a big guy with big hands so I want a big mouse.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope control-H is application dependent, it appears...

This topic is about a review that says the MacBook excels at Windows. Excels, compared to what? I'm just saying without a two button mouse pad with a scroller of some sort and a backspace key, one could argue that an HP laptop or any of many other brands would excel at Windows better.

True, you could use any external keyboard and mouse device, you can do that with any computer, but I like to carry just the laptop.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

This topic is about a review that says the MacBook excels at Windows. Excels, compared to what? I'm just saying without a two button mouse pad with a scroller of some sort and a backspace key, one could argue that an HP laptop or any of many other brands would excel at Windows better.


Yes, that bit makes no sense. Of cource it's going to run Windows nicely at those specs but at that price it's a bit silly. You could get two brandless laptops with similar specs (except with pcmcia slots) at that price. It doesn't realy makes sense to run anything but OSX on one of those. Maybe people want Windows dual boots for games or something?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forward delete is fn + delete on Apple laptops with an fn button.. and this is pretty much all powerbooks and of course the MB and the MBP too.

Did you ever read the docs? Laughing

This is a contextual mapping thingie and is active in all text entry fields globally no matter what ( ...if the application uses the OS provided mapping table.. and this of course is dependant on the software developer´s´sanity and sense of humour ).

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the qualitative diifferences between the two OS's are still more substantial than mere keyboard and mousing mappings....

i hope that wasn't too controversial hehe

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Clearly, but if you want to run OSX (legally) you are stuck using Apple hardware meaning a Apple keyboard (in the case of laptops)... Still, I agree that a more thorough benchmark would be better.

The new Mac laptops are nicely standardised and can run OSX, Windows and Linux, It'd be nice to see some real benchmarks on OS performance now.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/03/21/8212.aspx Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...and have you seen this one Question
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
...and have you seen this one Question


Yeah, saw it running nicely in person months ago but I stoped using warez.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
my PowerBook doesn't have two finger scrolling. Is there somewhere where this is descriped - what it is?


I don't know if "two finger scrolling" is the official term. When you put two fingers on the macbook pad and move both fingers in tandem, it acts like a two-dimensional scrolling wheel. It took me a while to figure out that you have to move both fingers, not just rest one and move the other.

/Stefan (currently slow to respond on e-m.com)

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