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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Newbee CV keyboard questions
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nekoneko



Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Newbee CV keyboard questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all!
I have been reading these forums for a while now and i have to say there is a great community here!! Very Happy

I am starting to build my soundlab and what to incorporate a CV keyboard. I have saved a set of keys from an old yamaha keyboard but i'm unsure of what to do next and what sought of matrix to use (i have included some pictures below). I also need to cut the keyboard down as it is too big, but don't know how to do it. does anybody know of any good online stores in the UK i can get componets from, i'm having a little trouble finding a good one. If anybody can help me with this it will be appreciated.
Cheers
Gray


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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
Posts: 323
Location: Cupertino, California

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, dig around on Ray's page and you'll find a wealth of other project ideas. On his controller page, for example, there are several keyboard projects. A matrix scanning keyboard and a single-bus keyboard. I haven't recycled one of those keyboards before, so I don't know which type you'll need. Maybe somebody else here can give you better guidance. But at least the circuits that you'll need to build are available and well documented.

Edit: looking at Ray's page a little more, I see that the matrix scanning keyboard project is controlled by a keyboard full of diodes. I remember seeing a bunch of diodes last time I had a yamaha keyboard open, so that's probably the ticket.

Anybody else here recycle a keyboard using one of Ray's designs?


oh, and NekoNeko, welcome to electro-music!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi NekoNeko,
Yeah, looks like the matrix scanner would be the way to go.
I'd start by stripping back the keyboard to the main PCB (the one which has the diodes on it in the photo) Then you're gonna have to get that PCB off so you can see the tracks, and how they run. It may be a tricky job to take it apart, so while you're there, draw the schematic of it. Then study Ray's Matrix scanner circuit until you understand what you're trying to get out of it.
I wouldn't rush into cutting it down as that may involve re-running some of the PCB tracks. It's not impossible, but wait till you know for sure.
If you've got any more specific questions, I'll help out any way I can. Just keep adding to this post.

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nekoneko



Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the replys guys much appreciated.
I stripped the keys down today and looked at the PCB. Each key has a piece of rubber membrane between it and the PCB, the PCB has what look like pressure sensitive sections. My guess is a key is pressed down and the pressure from the rubber membrane aplied to the PCB creates the trigger. I am not sure whether this keyboard is right for using with Ray's circuits as there a alot of cablelooms and a separate PCB which conects to the sound module inside the keyboard. Please let me know what you think and any suggestions of a suitable keyboard for use with Rays circuits will be apreciated greatly.
Cheers
Gray

P.S. without you stripboard layouts i would be lost, thanks Unkle Krunkus
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd say it's definately good for a matrix style CV/Gate circuit like Ray's. You've just got to work it out. If you haven't done alot of modding and/or DIY electronics, it might be a bit much to take on, but it's possible. Can you take a picture of the tracks under the keys?
I haven't done a stripboard of the matrix scanner. Sorry. Too busy to do one now. If you'd prefer a single bus keyboard, you can usually find one of those in an old organ. I've done a stripboard layout for that.

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Clack



Joined: Aug 08, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes ive had a look at using an electronic keyboard bit like that before and tried to apply it to ray's matrix encoded schematic but its not so easy, the problem was that he did 5 rows 8 columbs where as this keyboard had somthing different like 4 rows and 6 columbs. Id say finding an old electronic organ keyboard ( they usually have a single bus ) or making your own key switches is easier.
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nekoneko



Joined: Aug 02, 2006
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Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello everyone.
sorry its been a while since i've posted, i've been away on holiday. Anyway i have taken the pcb with the diodes on off and taken some pictures. Unkle krunkus i was just saying how much i appreciate the stripboards you have posted, not asking you to do a matrix one. Thanks for all the advice, if the single bus will be easier can anyone suggest any organs? or any signs to look for when getting one?
Cheers
Neko Neko


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boo



Joined: Oct 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi folks, I'm going to build a keyboard for my beautiful SoundLab (Some times ago I promised to publish some photos... I'll do that soon Embarassed ), and searching in Ray's site, I decided to go with the matrix encoded scheme. My question is: can I use any old key set with the membrane contacts, for example the keys from an old electronic keyboard? I've found this topic but I haven't understood definitely...
Thanks! Lorenzo
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The main problem, (as you'll read elsewhere in this thread) with old keyboards which are matrix encoded, is that they may have differing numbers of rows & columns. This doesn't mean that it's impossible to adapt them to Ray's matrix circuit, but there may be some compromising and/or PCB modifying/rebuilding to do.
Make sure you understand how his circuit works before you start.
Work out how many rows/columns your keyboard has, and decide whether you want to kludge your board, or modify Ray's circuit to make them match. Kludging your board is messier, but requires less circuit analysis/understanding.
Let us know how you're going.

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boo



Joined: Oct 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Uncle, ok, now I understand! My only question was if I could use the membrane switches, as Ray uses reed switches instead. Thanks... Just the time to find a keyboard that matches my project and I'm ready to work!
Lorenzo
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, okay, so you're basically looking at re-building the whole matrix anyway. Yep, membrane switches should work fine. Let us all know about how you go. Maybe post some pictures of the process too if possible. There are probably a few people out there who could really appreciate seeing how it is done. Smile
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boo



Joined: Oct 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, my intention was to rebuilt the whole matrix... Now I've to find a suitable keyboard (that will be a problem, I've searched around and I still haven't found anything...)
Thanks Lorenzo
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polaris26



Joined: Dec 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have here a Yamaha PSS-270 that is dead and I want to create a matrix keyboard to CV/Trigger/Gate circuit for it. It has 49 notes, using an 8X6 diode matrix arrangement and one more lone pad to make 49 total. The keyboard has a 15 conductor ribbon coming from it and going to the main board.

I came across some links here and on the net that show it done in hardware ( I see that Ray Wilson's boards are no longer available, by the way). I'm surprised not too many for doing it in software.

I did come across a link for a matrix to MIDI circuit: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/hardware/key.htm

Of course I want the analog outs instead of MIDI, but that could be arranged I think. The thing I like about this approach is that you can make changes in software, and there are far fewer parts. The drawback is that you have to know how to program the PIC.

About a year ago I tried to teach myself PIC prgramming. I bought the Predko book, researched online, bought a programmer, downloaded the latest IDE from Microchip, etc. but I didnt get very far. I'm an analog/hardware kind of guy but I would really like to do a project like this to understand the PIC side of things better.

Anyone here proficient with Microhip PICs? The one I have is a 16F877A which is a 40 pin package. I think it would be overkill for this project but I already have it at hand. If someone has some info that would help with this project, please contact me at: foda01 at epix dot net

thanks,

Dave
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