Where to start?

[prisoner54321]

Hello,
I'm new to the world of synthesis, synthesizers, and even keyboard instruments in general (I play guitar) but I wanted to add some sounds to some song ideas and maybe get into playing other types of music. At 1st I was thinking of getting a Roland Fantom X6. It has nice sounds. I particularly like a patch called "tubular bells" as I wanted to incorporate a song that I always here played on bells as an intro to a song I made (I guess a lot of universities and churches play this every hour), I don't know it's name, but if you play these notes, it might be familiar: b, g, A, f#, d, A, B, G. Then a series of dissonant droning occurs by playing e & bflat simultaneously, depending on what time it is (i.e. 3 drones for three o'clock). The tubular bells patch sounded good for this (It doesn't sound like the tubular bells exorcist song by oldfield, it's more like, I dunno, a church bell?). While the price was high for the X6, I was put off more by the size of the thing. I wish they made it in a 3 octave version. Plus it's heavy. This was back around the beginning of the year when the whole concept of synthesizers/workstations/samplers kinda eluded me. I'm still much in the dark, but from what I understand now, although the X6 is listed under the synthesizer section on most websites, it's not a synthesizer. It plays back pre-recorded samples of sounds. On top of that, it's like a tool-kit for music production. While, the bell patch is cool, I don't need all the extra whistles. Just an instrument that can make crazy sounds is nice, I can record with other equipment.

Synthesizers on the other-hand don't rely on recorded samples, but rather different things are used like oscillators, envelopes, filters, and effects to produce they're sounds. That's all greek to me and the closest thing it reminds me of is the oscilloscopes and various electro-mechanical equipment that I used in my physics and neurobiology labs at the university. But if it sounds good, I like it. And one day at the music store I heard someone play these eery bells and was curios to where it came from. I looked and saw the G2. Actually that is what sparked my interest in synthesizers. Since then, I've read alot about it. I've heard nothing but good things about the G2, especially in mp3's demonstrating it's physical modeling capabilities. Plus the Pitch stick speaks for itself. Vibrato is so easy and realistic with that, I just wish I was as comfortable on the keyboard as I am on the fretboard. The downside though is the learning curve. I've been playing with the editor download, and it's really complex stuff.

I think synth sounds are more versatile then those big keyboard- workstation-sampler things, at least the g2 is anyway. I've been getting into music that's probably classified as trance, maybe techno here in the states. Whatever it is I think it relies on synths (though I don't understand why the people making this music are DJ's not Synth players, I wish someone could clear this up for me). Stuff by people like DJ tiesto, Paul oakenfield, lasgo, Alice Deejay, etc. I've been curious at how to produce this music. Basically any rock song from a band playing guitars and bass I can pick up and play it on my guitar. Other stuff (hip-hop, or rap) I can figure out, but it doesn't sound good beacuse the instruments aren't guitars. So I can figure out the melody and bass lines and chords and what not, I just need something that can better reproduce the electronic sounds. It would be nice to be able to get a synth and be able to play songs like "castles in the Sky." I think i need to get comfortable with the keyboard format first and learn some synth basics and somewhere along the line figure out how exactly these trance artists are making their songs. (like how they get the melody to sound like it's getting all crazy and moving through all these crazy dimensions).

So Should I jump in and get the G2, or should I go for something lighter 1st (I was thinking the alesis micron, I was playing with that thing for about 5 hours yesterday in the music store and it is so much fun!!!) I think the micron would be a good step cause it would force me to learn how to play music on a keyboard, I'll pick up some synth basics, and maybe I'll learn how some of the sounds I hear in trance music is produced. Then in the mean time I could play with the g2 editor demo, read the g2 manuel, read stuff from Rob in the Netherlands (I hear he's a genius in the synth world), and save up money for the g2.

[seraph]

Hi prisoner54321
welcome to electro-music.com Where to start? I would start browsing the Nord Modular forum if you haven't done it already for general (and not so general) informations about the G2

[elektro80]

prisoner54321 !

I think you are on the right track. A synth is what you need. If you get into the whole synth thing, then this is like guitars really. You keep buying more. You have settled for red right now I guess, with the G2.

You do of course have software alternatives. Reason 3 might be excellent for this.

[King Rat]

Depends what you want to do, basically...

I sing and play guitar in a rock band, and I write a lot of our keyboard stuff, including synth parts, for which a G2 is perfect. About a two years ago, I didn't know the first thing about oscillators and envelopes etc., but now it just seems second nature. And the way the G2 is designed (i.e. hardware instrument with a software programming interface) gives you the flexibility to shape the sounds and playability just how you want to, without having to take a laptop to gigs.

But if you want to write music on your computer with more of an electronic component e.g. lots of synth lines and electro percussion and rhythm sounds, you're going to need a sequencer anyway. Maybe you're familiar with this sort of thing, but in case you're not, I recommend either Reason or Live.

Live is great for composing more like a DJ - ie. take snippets of sound and loop them, cross fade them, add effects etc. It also has some good MIDI capabilities now. But it doesn't have much in the way of built-in software synths, and it's not great for recording real instruments.

Reason is great for dance music and has components like ReDrum that are basically software drum machines. If you want more composing power, I love Logic. It isn't quite as instantly accessible as the above, but it's way more powerful in the long run. It has full MIDI sequencing and loop synching capabilities, but the real bonus is that it comes bundled with a whole raft of software synths and samplers, as well as great effects. All of these have huge preset menus so even if you don't know what you're doing, you can just experiment until you find a sound you like!

Also depends if cash is an issue. If not, buy a G2 now - they're good fun and you can get up and running with just the factory presets and the patches posted on this forum. If it is, and if you don't want to use it in a live scenario, go for the software route. Outside of the synths which come with Logic or other such programmes, Absynth is an interesting programme to investigate; there are sounds I can get from that which I could not even begin to work out how to get out of my G2 (I'm sure it can be done, just not by me!)

Above all, keep playing guitar and don't let the world of synth patching etc. get in the way of real instruments. And go check out Wayne Krantz at 55 Bar in the Village.

Hope this helps and I'm not teaching you to suck eggs (not sure that translates into American English, let alone Dutch, German etc.)

Angus

[mosc]

prisoner54321

Well, you have already gotten a lot of good suggestions. I have been using synthesizers since the 1960s but never got into the techno style. I too was wondering how it was done. I was very impressed. Then I downloaded a copy of Abelton Live and voila - there are tools that make it very easy. You can download the demo for free. It's fully functional but you can't save anything.

The good thing about Live and Reason and all the others is you can use VST plugins which provide lots of soft synths - many excellent ones are free.

The G2 is a great synth, maybe the best ever. You can get lots of sounds you were talking about - big bells and chimes are there aplenty. It's a patcher's machine though. If you are using the G2 demo program, then you'll get the idea.

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd try to go with Live and use free VST stuff until I knew for sure I wanted a powerful device like the G2.

But, hey, there is no right answer...

[prisoner54321]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Mostly everyone has suggested soft-ware synths. I think I should get into the whole soft-ware thing. I got a new labtop last September, so I think it should work for that. It's got a P4 HT 3.0 Ghz processor & 512 Mb RAM. I'd probably have to clean all the crap off my computer to make it run smoothly for the soft-synth programs (I got 30 gigs worth of mp3's alone on the thing). I'd also have to get a controller keyboard. This is one of the things I liked about the alesis micron, I read somewhere it can be used for that. I wonder if the g2 can be used as a control keyboard to control soft-synths like Reason? That would probably seem odd though, it would be like my dog taking me out for a walk. I did some research into controller keyboards and I was lead to the Novation X-Station. It has a 49 key version that would fit perfectly in the slide out part of my desk (where a normal computers keyboard would go). The x-station also has a built in synth and DSP of it's own. That should be fun. Still, I feel I'll end up getting a G2 eventually. I'll just give it some time to grow, then when I get it there will be countless patches available. I'm really interested in the physical modelling capabilities and I do hope development occurs in this area as it would be a shame for a master patcher to develop all these emulations only to take them to the grave without sharing with the rest of the world. Also, I see that a tutorial on how to produce trance, techno, and house sounds is being prepared. That should be very interesting. So in the mean time I can get into the whole software thing with keeping an eye on the G2. I already looked over every page of this forum and have downloaded numerous patches to see if they work in the g2 demo editor. Some do. One was a patch called "trance machine" that was pretty cool (it had like 24 oscillators). You can learn alot from the patches that are set up, then you play with them and see what you get. I'll probably enjoy playing with soft-synths too as I've found that most things in life that I've tried for the first time I've been pretty much blown away by.

[elektro80]

The G2 is in fact a softsynth that is embedded in hardware. main point is that something like Reason is less expensive and you will have the chance to learn and get ideas. Who knows, you might get like 10 more reasons for buying a G2?

That said, personally I started out with synths back in the mid/late 70s and I am pretty used to the standard vintage hardware interfaces. I love that stuff. On the other hand, software synths are amazingly good these days. In your case, I reckon a softsyth is good place to start.
An alterative is of course something like Logic 7.1. That one must probably be one of the best bundles at the moment. Only problem is that it is mac only. Reason 3 is in many ways a complete studio and I guess that one is an excellent bargain too.

[mosc]

The G2 would make a good controller for soft synths. If you are interested in getting a G2 and you see it in your future, then get it as soon as possible. Why waste your time? The resale value seems to be excellent so the financial risk is not too extreme. The resale value of a soft synth is pretty much nill.

[prisoner54321]

Wow, I just seen that there's gonna be a 3-day expo this summer in philly. Not only is it an expo on elctro-music, but it's also the annual NM meet-up! I definitly gotta get tickets since this is right in my back yard (Orange County NY borders PA). I'll get one of those voice recorders for my ipod so I can record the lectures too. I think I'll hold on any major purchases until I see this. Lots of concerts & performers too. This will be the first time I ever saw this kinda of music produced live instead of a DJ playing back pre-recorded synthesized music. Should be interesting. Hum, 3 days of peace, music and synths. . .this sounds like the woodstock of the future!

[seraph]

[elektro80]

[egw]

I look forward to seeing you there, prisoner.
You'll have lots of chances to see the G2 (and all kinds of other synths) in action, ask questions, try them out, share your ideas, and meet some interesting people!

[mosc]

Yes, it's going to be a fab event. I suggest you get your tickets now before we are out of them. We only have room for 135 people.

[davep]

[cappy2112]

[Axiom]

*homer voice*

ahhhh claviastock :Q_______________