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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » General Discussion
mpc or machinedrum???
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KoshiMazaki



Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: mpc or machinedrum??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys!

I am considering buying a hardware machine for beats, a good companion for my Virus. I would like to sample virus with it and create some crazy rhythms. I would be really grateful if you could suggest me which way to go.
I have never put my hands on hadware beatbox or sampler. My music is inspired by mause on mars, super collider, andrew pekler Wink
I'm making my beats in reaktor and am wondering if harware beatbox would sound better, or it is just fun of use?Do you think mpc might add wormth to the sound of reaktor? how about machinedrum. Is it worth to spend so much money on it, considering it's performance?
Any other suggetions apreciated.

thanks in advance.

oh and if it doesn't suits this forum please move it..

cheers

KM
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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi KM!

Whether a hardware beatbox/sampler will be better/warmer/more fun and so on is really a matter of personal opinion and working style.

If you want to sample sounds from Reaktor, a Machinedrum is not the right choice; it is basically a percussion synth with a sequencer, although you can get limited sampling memory as an option. For this job an Akai MPC would be better, or you could check out the Roland MV-8000. Personally I like the MV-8000.

And don't worry, this is the right forum for general gear talk thumleft

DJ
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KoshiMazaki



Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks DJ!

I rather want to sample virus than reaktor. i heard that machinedrum have realy nice sounds and 'creazy rhytms' posibilities. the thing is is it worth to spend so much money for it. And will I get the sound that can't be achieved with reaktor or virus Smile ??
MV- 8000 looks nice but its expensive as well. I was thinking about mpc 1000.

greets
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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KoshiMazaki wrote:
I rather want to sample virus than reaktor.

Right, I managed to get that confused Embarassed
Quote:
i heard that machinedrum have realy nice sounds and 'creazy rhytms' posibilities. the thing is is it worth to spend so much money for it. And will I get the sound that can't be achieved with reaktor or virus Smile ??

I've never actually tried a Machinedrum, but Reaktor should be more than able to do all that the MD can. Reaktor can get as crazy as you wish and the Virus is quite capable, also for percussion sounds. Again I think it's mostly a matter of preference.

Some people like the feel and functions of the MD sequencer and sounds. It may be that some styles of percussion sounds an rhythm patterns are easy to get out of an MD. In any case it will be very different to work with than a Virus + Reaktor + sequencer setup. If your budget is tight and/or you like to work with your current setup I can't see any pressing reasons to grab a Machinedrum. If you have the money and think that you would like the MD or MPC interfaces, why not? If it inspires you it must be 'right'. Perhaps there are some Machinedrum owners here who would like to comment?

DJ
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't tried out that many different pieces of equipment, so it's hard for me to offer comparisons, but I have an Electribe SX, which I kind of like. It samples external sound sources, and plays patterns, groove-box style (I think). It's cheaper than an MPC1000. One downside is loading of samples from smartmedia cards, which is a bit awkward and slow. From what I've heard it's easier to work with than other similar gear though.

May be worth checking out.

/Stefan
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KoshiMazaki



Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys for replys.
I was thinking about electribe the tube version. I have to check it out in the shop.

When it comes t ompc it will be probably harder to operate this than ableton live and reaktor which I use. I still don't havee a clue Wink just am in need of buying some hardware that will add some drums to my virus. Laughing
What do you think about jamox mbase or roland grooveboxes? Let's say I want to spend about 600 GBP.

The thing is when I compare Virus sound to any soft synth, the difference is huge! The same IMO must be with drum machines samplers etc.

cheers!

KM
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Keep in mind that the MD has the Elektron sound all over it, which isn't exactly "warm", you've got to like that sound.

So it won't add much "warmth" if you're looking for that,
but it will add alot of other stuff Smile
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Last I heard, the Machinedrum can do odd time signatures and none of the sampling drum machines can. Is this still correct?

I have an Emu Command Station that CAN do any time signature, but its no longer in production and it doesn't sample.
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Depends on what those "odd time signatures" are,
what kind of time signatures do you mean?
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Samplers like the MPC won't add much warmth to your sound. What you put in, is what you get out. The filters that are there aren't really any more special than what can be found elsewhere. And for what it's worth, Live can do alot more than the MPC will ever dream of. I'd suggest that unless you are after a hardwarre interface to push buttons & whatnot, stick with Live for a bit. It has all the filters, sampling, and sequencing to support what you want to do.
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KoshiMazaki



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks again Very Happy It's realy friendly forum.
I know live is realy good I'm using it since version 3. Love it and never gona change to cubase or etc. Just wanted these knobs and buttons Wink

I just find out that in the price of MD i could buy G2 engine and evolver
Which surely will add wormth and craziness, not many buttons though Wink

Just curious... how many percent of USB does G2 take. ex my virus takes 68% and x station about 26%.

greets

KM
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
Depends on what those "odd time signatures" are,
what kind of time signatures do you mean?


If a drum machine can do odd time signatures, that means it will let you put any integer you want in both top and the bottom of the signature.

Like, 11/8, 13/6, etc.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
Keep in mind that the MD has the Elektron sound all over it, which isn't exactly "warm", you've got to like that sound.

So it won't add much "warmth" if you're looking for that,
but it will add alot of other stuff Smile


Exactly. Although 'a lot of fun'- the MD is pure electro-pop- if that sort of thing is your bag!

The Warp-records band 'Broadcast' recently sacked their drummer in favour of a Monomachine (which includes the Machinedrum). So if you want to get an idea of what the MD sounds like- go listen to some recent Broadcast Smile

However, don't buy an MPC for its sampler- because I think you will be very disappointed. It's slow and lumpy to use.- BUT OTOH the MPC sequencer is one of the best of its kind (albeit a bit buggy compared to the old MPC3000 or ASQ10- which are both bomb proof). btw I'm referring to the MPC2000xl- and not the 1000 or 2500- which I haven't had experience of.

I think the MPC comes in to its own when used with a external sequencer- which is a good thing anyway. Hardware samplers are cheap as nuts these days as you know.

To be honest- I missed the visual feedback of a computer and sold my MPC in favour of Logic Audio- but that's a personal thing.

However the MPC imo is a lot funkier and musical (its natural 'swing') than Logic- although you can load MPC quantize templates into Logic- despite it being a bit of a faff! Very Happy

Hope that helps.

Tom
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KoshiMazaki wrote:
I just find out that in the price of MD i could buy G2 engine and evolver


back again Smile- Given the choice, I would go for a G2 over the MD anyday- as you can always build your own sequencer in the G2. Get the G2 to fire the Virus and reconnect the virus output to the G2 for further processing Very Happy
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aquanaut



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I get into sequencing much more with the mpc than with logic. With the mpc i need to visualize mentally the sequence and what i want to do with it. Thats what i wanted when i bought the thing, i find it uninspiring to have a sequence laid out on a screen.

If your used to grab a bunch of notes and moved them around with the mouse you will probably hate that machine. That task is supposedly more easy to do with the new OS but the "move" features they added is buggy and can kill all your work. So right now if i want to move events i need to copy them all...reselect the events...delete..and paste them where i want them to be. It can be a pain when you pasted them at the wrong place.

On the plus side those pads where a discovery; when sequencing live you're always recording different gate time and subtle change in velocity and that adds a lot to the dynamics of a sequence.
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KoshiMazaki



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thats a good point you make aquanaut. I wanted to try differend way than clicking the mouse. It seems that machinedrum's style appers to me more than mpcs. I think I gonna save some money and buy one. Like the sound and it seems much easier to use than mpc. I wish I had enough time and money to try both Wink

thanks guys

KM
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aquanaut wrote:
With the mpc i need to visualize mentally the sequence and what i want to do with it. Thats what i wanted when i bought the thing, i find it uninspiring to have a sequence laid out on a screen.


That's a very interesting point- because I have real bad problems with visualizing both sequence of rhythms and notes. I needed the visual feedback (in addition to auditory feedback) to help remember what I had just done.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the way the MPC worked in that regard- but I just found its OS hard to get on with.

FWIW- I still use my ancient Yamaha RY30 for inputting data- probably the sole reason why I didn't need the MPC so much. Likewise, if I had the money I would have both MPC and Macintosh- ideally.

What one really needs is this all built into ones head- and do without all these hardware barriers!! Wink
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KoshiMazaki



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cheers v-un-v I have to check Broadcast.
I'm not sure if I would be able to use both virus and G2 in the same time as both are connected via usb and virus uses over 60% of it as I mantioned. Do you know how it is with g2?? How it is with midi connection? As I control virus desktop with x-station. What would be better for me to start. G2 engine or micro or G2 keyboard?
Is there a vocoder in G1?

greets guys

KM
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KoshiMazaki wrote:
Do you know how it is with g2?? How it is with midi connection? As I control virus desktop with x-station. What would be better for me to start. G2 engine or micro or G2 keyboard?


I don't know because I don't have a G2- but I'm sure someone else here will Smile

on the other hand.......

KoshiMazaki wrote:

Is there a vocoder in G1?


Very Happy There certainly is! A very good one too!! Not only is the G1 is a bargain, it also sounds better than the G2 (IMO).

- I've been a 'G1' user since it came out (pretty much) Cool
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KoshiMazaki wrote:
I'm not sure if I would be able to use both virus and G2 in the same time as both are connected via usb and virus uses over 60% of it as I mantioned. Do you know how it is with g2??


When you could tell me how to measure it I could try to give you some numbers. I mean I've got two G2 engines hooked up now but no idea how to see how much USB bandwidth is used.

I quess it should be working though ... as it's possible to connect up to four G2's simultaneously I'd expect it to use less than 25% of the USB bandwidth ...

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KoshiMazaki



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know how to masure it. Anyway when I turn on the virus and x station simultaneously the alert comes out which shows how many % of bandwith one takes..

Another thing I woiuld like to ask Smile
Will g2 or g1 be working simultaneously with ableton live open? Normaly if I open live and sound forge I can't hear sound forge. Tell me if I'm wrong but It should be all right as G2 editor is operated by the hardware.
Do you think it may be some midi delay (keyboard latancy) if I would connect x station to virus and then to nord?

greets

KM
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KoshiMazaki wrote:
Another thing I woiuld like to ask Smile
Will g2 or g1 be working simultaneously with ableton live open?


They work togheter like a charm.
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
mother misty wrote:
Keep in mind that the MD has the Elektron sound all over it, which isn't exactly "warm", you've got to like that sound.

So it won't add much "warmth" if you're looking for that,
but it will add alot of other stuff Smile


The Warp-records band 'Broadcast' recently sacked their drummer in favour of a Monomachine (which includes the Machinedrum). So if you want to get an idea of what the MD sounds like- go listen to some recent Broadcast Smile


The "beatbox" included in the monomachine is not tesame as the machinedrum.
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