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My Blacet System
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bigtex



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, that's a fancy trick. I don't know if you want to go to the trouble, but if you worked out a deal with all of the ROM makers and offered that one-chip solution, you could probably sell a few of them. I'd probably buy one.

But, since I don't have an EPROM burner, I'd likely just buy all of the available chips, the Hylander board, and figure out some way to make that fit behind a 1.5" Frac panel to bring out the extra controls. I like the idea of having ROM switching under CV control as well.
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I actually hadn't thought of using CV to control the bank switch. We may have to add that. Smile
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
We actually built our own, but yes, I was wondering if you had the Hylander one. We only had 4 PCBs printed for our own use, but I was thinking we should have more made.


This is something that I would be interested in. I have thought about doing this but have several projects ahead of this. I could not see the sense in having all those EPROMS when newer devices have so much larger capacities. This is my personal opinion and know that not everyone can burn their own EPROMS. This would save me some time in laying out a new Mini-Wave daughter board. Please post some pictures of your PCB and a small bit if information on it. I would purchase one or two from you if thats possible. You can [PM] mail me if you want.

Luckily, I have a means of consolidating multiple wavetables into one large BIN file for burning onto a larger device as we have a new DATA I/O UNISITE programmer at work.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey State,
I'm trying to work out how I could acquire the ROM from an old GS6s UV-EPROM and burn it to a new chip. Do you do any stuff like that? Got any ideas? Where might I find the original ROM data? Or would I have to read it back out of a working unit?
PS If you say 'forget it, it's too hard, just let it go' that's okay, and I might be just as happy. I just need to know either way before I start turning this GS6 into something else! Laughing

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Or would I have to read it back out of a working unit?


As long as the EPROM was not fried its ok I guess. If you have a unit that would be the easiest way to go, you'll need a programmer anyway to program and programmers can read EPROMS as well (and save the dat to file).

Alternatively you'll need a HEX file or a raw binary dump of the data. Anyone with access to a programmer and an original EPROM could make it. Maybe its available on the web somewhere already.

Don't know if somewhere near you there maybe is some small scale electronics company that does small scale design and production. I'm sure they would gladly help you, I would. Just bring the original rom or the file and a target device, it takes just a few seconds realy to do it.

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm trying to work out how I could acquire the ROM from an old GS6s UV-EPROM and burn it to a new chip. Do you do any stuff like that? Got any ideas? Where might I find the original ROM data? Or would I have to read it back out of a working unit?


Blue Hells's answer is quite correct, Thanks !!! cheers
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay,
Next question,
Do either of you know someone with a working Roland GS6?
If you did, and if you were able to get a copy of their ROM and burn me a new one, I'd gladly cover all costs.
I'm not really expecting you to say yes, it's a bit of a quest to send someone on. Maybe if you could just keep an ear to the ground for me.

The reason I'm fairly sure my ROM is scrambled is that after trying lots of stuff, I finally pulled the ROM and re-seated it. Suddenly the display starting coming up with Klingon script of some sort. Still no sound though. Are UV-EPROMs static sensitive? I kind of assumed they aren't, as they are routinely plugged in and out of programmers etc.

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J3RK



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I took a couple pictures of the expander board. I'll put them up when I get home from work tonight.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I finished my Blacet "Klanc-Werk" and integrated into my modular system last evening. I patched up a few sounds at 2 AM this morning and came up with this sort of mixed bag of sounds. Although the module is capable of some real chaotic sounds, I wanted to keep it more subtle. Except for the NASA voice samples, the rest is done on my modular system. I use a bit of FX using my ZOOM RFX2000 but not too much as I did not want to color the original sounds so much.


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State Machine
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The reason I'm fairly sure my ROM is scrambled is that after trying lots of stuff, I finally pulled the ROM and re-seated it. Suddenly the display starting coming up with Klingon script of some sort. Still no sound though. Are UV-EPROMs static sensitive? I kind of assumed they aren't, as they are routinely plugged in and out of programmers etc.


Unfortunately I do not know anyone who owns one, let alone convince him to remove his EPROM for duplication. I will keep my "Ear to the ground" though. Very Happy

Just be certain that it is not an intermittent connection or problematic solder connection as the quotation hints toward this possibility.

If you do get a hold of an GS6 EPROM, I will do the duplication for you. Just the fee for shipping is all it will cost you. Let me know what EPROM type it is as I have many on hand. FREE of charge of course!

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I took a couple pictures of the expander board. I'll put them up when I get home from work tonight.


Great, I will drop by tonight and check the photo out. Any ideas about selling any if I like it? If so, how much? No pressure though. I will not be disappointed. If not, maybe a variation with CV controls can be the next generation. Idea

PS: I have actually been kicking around the idea about designing a sort of "MAXI-WAVE" using 16-BIT wavetables instead of the Lo-Fi 8-Bit tables. I do love the Lo-Fi though and it has its place and they would exist nicely side by side. The nice thing about using the 16-Bit tables is that with a little post-processing, the low order bits can be discarded and its sound decimated. This gives Hi-Fi and Lo-Fi capability.
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J3RK



Joined: Jun 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Quote:
I took a couple pictures of the expander board. I'll put them up when I get home from work tonight.


Great, I will drop by tonight and check the photo out. Any ideas about selling any if I like it? If so, how much? No pressure though. I will not be disappointed. If not, maybe a variation with CV controls can be the next generation. Idea

PS: I have actually been kicking around the idea about designing a sort of "MAXI-WAVE" using 16-BIT wavetables instead of the Lo-Fi 8-Bit tables. I do love the Lo-Fi though and it has its place and they would exist nicely side by side. The nice thing about using the 16-Bit tables is that with a little post-processing, the low order bits can be discarded and its sound decimated. This gives Hi-Fi and Lo-Fi capability.


I'm pretty sure that having a few more boards printed, and tossing together a quick parts list would cost us next to nothing, so that's about what we'd sell them for. (maybe slightly above the cost of manufacturing) We really don't do these things to make money. (at least at this point) We have some other projects that may end up being sold at some point though.

Anyway, as far as CV controls for ROM switching go, I can't see myself ever needing to do this. The only reason I could see this being important is if one was playing live, and wanted to switch ROMs for performance reasons (like for the next song or something.) Switching banks on a single ROM via the MW's included CV seems sufficient to me. I suppose it would be pretty easy to implement though.

I really like your idea of using 16 bit waves. This would be the final thing to make me forget about the Waldorf XT forever. Very Happy
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
'm pretty sure that having a few more boards printed, and tossing together a quick parts list would cost us next to nothing, so that's about what we'd sell them for. (maybe slightly above the cost of manufacturing) We really don't do these things to make money. (at least at this point) We have some other projects that may end up being sold at some point though.


OK then, fair enough. Let me know when you are ready. I would most likely purchase two PCB's. I have Paypal so payment would not be a problem. If you don't, I can just send a money order or check.

The CV control will probably be enough on the original MW now that I read your post. This considered, the next generation would then be a 16-Bit version I spoke of in my earlier post. A FLASH memory would probably be incorporated and waveform additions would be implemented using USB (fast - harder to implement) or a MIDI SYS-EX or SAMPLE DUMP data transfer standard (slower - easier to implement) if a new product were developed.

Thanks,
Bill
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here are the pics. They're about 1.7 MB each. I don't have any photo editors installed yet (just wiped my PC,) so they're big.

http://home.comcast.net/~r3cogniz3r/MW1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~r3cogniz3r/MW2.jpg

Edit: Ok, just got off the phone with my friend. The place we used is geared toward fast proto work and charges by the square inch. For us to make 10 of these, would be $30 each. There are some other places that take a little longer, but cost a bit less. It doesn't matter to us either way, and we do plan to make 10, just in case someone else wants one. So, we can toss a parts list together, get 10 made, and maybe charge between 30 and 40 for the board plus shipping, (meaning shipping included) depending on where we get them made. So, if we got them done at one of the slower places, we could charge around 30, and if we got them done at the fast place, around 40-50 (these are just estimates.) The rest of the parts are actually pretty cheap, just some chip sockets, and a few components. I'm thinking we'd go with one of the cheaper board printers, so $30 is pretty close to what I think that plus shipping through the mail would be.

Oh, and he's got a 12 or 16 bit wavetable module in mind as well Smile I had no idea. We'll see what happens though. We come up with a lot of things, and only end up with time to do a few, so who knows. It's really just a hobby for him, and I could go either way (hobby or commercial.) Anyway, if you seriously want a couple, I'll tell him to go ahead and place an order for some boards to be made.
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually those pics are probably detailed enough to duplicate from Very Happy Very Happy
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Anyway, if you seriously want a couple, I'll tell him to go ahead and place an order for some boards to be made.


Yes, I am down for two boards. Thanks. I appreciate that. When they are available, I will pay you at once. The pictures look good. I see the A/B switch is now a rotary unit to select the EPROMS. Your daughter card fits nicely over the original. Good job. This way I can pack a boat load of waveforms into the unit. I have the WAVE256 program from Wiard to make sequencer patterns. Nice utility!

Quote:
Oh, and he's got a 12 or 16 bit wavetable module in mind as well I had no idea.


I can believe that. I am sure I am not the only soul that thought of this. I would go all the way and do the 16 bit design and add the flash upgrade features I talked about. They can use my ideas also, no patent infringement there Wink

Thanks again ...
Bill
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll be seeing him today, so I'll let him know that you want them. I'll send you a PM when they are done.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'll be seeing him today, so I'll let him know that you want them. I'll send you a PM when they are done.


OK then. Thanks for your assistance! I will await the e-mail.

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'll be seeing him today, so I'll let him know that you want them. I'll send you a PM when they are done


Just want to know. What is the EPROM part number for this card?

I would like to know in advance so I can consolidate my wave-tables.

Thanks.
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll find out, and post it in a bit.
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Flash: SST 39SF040 - 70 (DIP package)

Mouser part number: 804-39SF0407CPH

There is an EPROM equivalent (and a jumper on the board to select it,) if you wanted to go that route. I don't have the part number though at the moment.

There will be 6 of these boards left (I'm using two of them,) if anyone else would like one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Mouser part number: 804-39SF0407CPH


Great, thanks my friend! Very Happy I thank you for your trouble and kindness. I notice the 256K x 16 EPROMS are a nice deal also! Good for the 16 bitter! Oh, I am so compulsive Shocked

I will order up some of these chips (and some of the x 16 chips) from Mouser this evening. I will probably get a couple of 16 bit converters from Analog Devices and experiment a bit.

I have been having fun experimenting with the Mini-Wave and slaving it to a SLOW sawtooth and using the MW output to create some interesting and rhythmic modulations for my VCO's!
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J3RK



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BigTex: Sorry, didn't mean to take over your thread. How is the Blacet work coming? I just ordered VCO 3 and VCO 4, for mine, so I'll be building again soon. Smile My Bananalogue Serge VCS module just showed up today as well. Just switched over to a new power supply too. Got a Power One 3 amp supply. The thing weighs more than everything else in the rack combined. Very Happy
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Big Tex,
I just wanted to ask a favour.
I've got a new idea in the pipeline and I need to find out the exact height and width of the modular panels which you're making up. Also, if part of the panel has to be free space at the back for mounting, how far down from the top/up from the bottom does it go?
To the nearest mm or 1/32" would be great.
I think I saw 2 widths that you're using, the bigger one is probably more useful.
Thanks heaps,
No hurry,
Andrew

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Big Tex,
Don't worry too much about that last post. I checked out the MOTM site and got all the info I need. (Except how much space top and bottom for mounting?)
I'm glad I did, there I was trying to fit it into a 1*4U space and now I can safely go for a 2*5 knowing it will fit into other modular racks. Are all modulars 5U high? If not, is it still an option for other, non MOTM, racks?

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