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 Forum index » How-tos » Production - engineering/mixing
the Digital/Analogue time bog
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Digital and Analogue together?
Totally
66%
 66%  [ 10 ]
Mostly
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
A little bit
26%
 26%  [ 4 ]
No way
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 15

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Which explains why some of us use Bias Peak for conversion.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK? I guess this kinda suggests there is a lot to the whole SRC thingie . Very Happy
More to be found all over the web. Tech books on SRC issues are recommended too.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Related , but not to SRC ( sample rate conversion ) , is how some of the vintage/warm/hyped analog gear really works and sounds like.
Universal Audio has some interesting stuff posted.

Like: The 1176 All Buttons Mode

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cebec



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks!

For Windows users there's Voxengo's r8brain SRC:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brainpro/
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Related , but not to SRC ( sample rate conversion ) , is how some of the vintage/warm/hyped analog gear really works and sounds like.
Universal Audio has some interesting stuff posted.

Like: The 1176 All Buttons Mode


I found an SRC link that is for Secret Rabbit Code - a sample rate converter no less...

http://www.mega-nerd.com/SRC/

I got a good laugh readding about the All Buttons In compressor. Reminds me of the hype around the Joe Meek compressors which were designed by Ted Fletcher who presented at the Modular 2003 confernece in London. The latest incarnation of this is Edward, The Compressor. http://www.tfpro.com/products/info/13.php

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Ted, BTW, is a facinating guy. Talk about stories...

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have had Eddie here for some months and then some. It is great. The super low end turbo budget device .. the P4... is really nice too.
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Last edited by elektro80 on Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back to SRC comparisons - this is an interesting site http://src.infinitewave.ca/

Kassen used the world startling when describing these results. That's a good choice. This is not rocket science - there is no excuse for a commercial DAW to include a noisy conversion program. Outrageous is another word that might be appropriate.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FIY, the 1176 ABM can be truly useful at times.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Back to SRC comparisons - this is an interesting site http://src.infinitewave.ca/

Kassen used the world startling when describing these results. That's a good choice. This is not rocket science - there is no excuse for a commercial DAW to include a noisy conversion program. Outrageous is another word that might be appropriate.


wow, that's great howard, thanks...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would be fun to have a room full of all of the compressors made.

Ted was big in the early 60s British pop productions where super high compression of vocals became cool. At his talk he played some of the earliest recordings to use these techniques. He is still in love with those sounds. It is an aquired taste, and after 45 years I still haven't aquired it - except maybe for The Beatles vocals.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

Kassen used the world startling when describing these results. That's a good choice. This is not rocket science - there is no excuse for a commercial DAW to include a noisy conversion program. Outrageous is another word that might be appropriate.


Hmmmm, for realtime systems it's still not that easy. It seems obvious to use a FIR filter because here these are computationally efficient and they are phase-linear (asuming a symetrical filter) but this also means some samples of latency are added which may cause phasing issues when using multiple paralel tracks.

Is it already time to repeat my "you won't get perfection" remark again?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Is it already time to repeat my "you won't get perfection" remark again?


I think so.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, this is the second time I've made the wrong choice when it comes to resampling. First it was using Kontakt as my main sampler (see http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/aliasing/ - I now own and love Short Circuit), and now it's using Cubase to resample to 44.1k Laughing

I'll be downloading a copy of r8brain methinks. Thanks cebec, and mosc for that great link.

After doing a search for the Izotope SRC, I found a post on the Voxengo forums saying it's best to bounce to 32bit float, use your favourite limiter to shape the odd unwanted peak, convert to 16bit with your favourite dither/converter, then resample after that. This was at http://www.voxengo.com/forum/ar/1137/

Also, the paper that elekro's graphs are taken from is here: http://xserve1.bias-inc.com:16080/products/peakPro5/resampling/peakResamplingWhitePaper.pdf

Very interesting stuff.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On dithering, since I came across this today as a result of this discussion -- there's a 'blind' dither shootout and the MegaBitMax Ultra algorithm, now in Izotope's Ozone 3 as MBIT+, has so far been determined as the most pleasing (quietest?) by a long shot.

http://www.24-96.net/dither/

The creator of that algorithm is now employed by Izotope, and is Alexey Lukin, the creator of Rightmark Audio Analyzer. There is a LOT of interesting technical info. here. Too bad the pics are gone, though.

http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/

I think I may try a combination of Ozone 3 for dithering and r8brain Pro for SRC and compare with my most recent method -- Sonar POW-R 3 for dithering and GoldWave's SRC, both of which have performed average or below average in all of the data I've seen so far. Rolling Eyes
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For what it's worth, there seems to be a difference between a 96k file converted to 44.1k in Cubase and in r8brain free. It's subtle, and again in the top end. Some inharmonics are accentuated in the Cubase version... the r8brain one sounds more natural.

I was thinking about buying Ozone, purely for it's transparent eq and multi-band compressor for final mixdowns. Now knowing about the quality of it's dither algorithm, it looks alot more attractive. Especially at us$250 Cool
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cebec wrote:
The creator of that algorithm is now employed by Izotope, and is Alexey Lukin, the creator of Rightmark Audio Analyzer. There is a LOT of interesting technical info. here. Too bad the pics are gone, though.

http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/


Which pics? I can see the graphs etc. The audio files are there too Smile
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cebec



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

all the .pngs on this page are missing on my browser (Firefox 1.5.0.4)

http://audio.rightmark.org/lukin/dither/dither.htm
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Weird, they all show up here. I'm using Firefox 1.0.7 though.... They work in IE as well. Maybe you need a png library/dll or something? I don't remember installing one on this machine though.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Huh, yeah, that's weird. With this ver. of Firefox on two diff. machines, I'm unable to see those. Thanks!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cebec, me too. I can't see them and I'm using 1.5.0.4 Firefox too...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Weird... I should really update my Firefox anyway, I'll see if I have the same problem.

Maybe have a look at forums.mozillazine.org ?

edit: Just updated my Firefox to 1.5.0.4, now I have the same problem. Still works in IE though.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You guys cannot see the PNGs I posted as inline images above? Is that it?
Shocked

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, I'm referring to the one's on Alexey Lukin's page, linked above. I can see the ones here just fine. Hmmmmm...
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