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 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
The future of music
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mi_dach



Joined: Dec 17, 2005
Posts: 133
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I enjoy new production aesthetics, and using new technology with expressive feedback to the performer. So I circuit bend computers with my tongue.

I think one possible future direction for electronic music is taking the focus away from all that high end, incredibly expensive gear. There is an oppressive attitude that expensive hardware is required for making quality music. The common definition of what is a 'good sound' is highly driven by manufacturers. The gear making industry is hardly going to tell you otherwise either, they rake in billions every year.

The latest gear might give high fidelity audio, but that's a long way from giving quality music. The current sound of 'good music' is so closely tied to sound of the pricey gear. And that's an aesthetic we can change. Making music should become something that everyone can do, instead of just rich people who can afford that new Moog. The more people that make music, the more quality, innovative music will emerge.

opg, I enjoyed what you wrote about people listening to bedroom artists, listening alone.

I have a circuit bent keyboard that cost me nothing, I like to play it alone, it sounds sweet to me. I don't expect other people to listen to the noise it makes, it's the experience of playing and creation that is valuable, nothing to do with the technology nor the pricetag. The recorded sounds are mostly worthless and so I don't both to record it, but the concept of bending your own instrument, and exploring strange sound, that experience can be shared with others. And imho thats where the music is.
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i gave up looking for something new a while back. i prefer to look for something well done.

i think there's a lot of truth in the concept that things are only new when you're young. and even then, to most people they're scary and unfamiliar. the window for finding something new AND interesting is difficult to keep as wide as possible.

also, there's a lot of truth in the fact that we find it harder, the older we get, to give music time. i remember being a youth and listening to a whole album over and over again, maybe 4 or 5 times in a row. i remember wearing tapes and vinyl out. i remember being given albums by friends who'd say, "you'll like it by the time you've heard it 4 times" and they'd be right.

back then i didn't care whether the music used cut'n'paste, whether the aeolian mode was played in a sextuplet polyrhythmically accented ascending sequence, or whether the music was a metasynth interpretation of a chimpanzees painting.



incidentally, Autechre have turned into a bit of a marmite band (if you don't know marmite, you either love it or hate it. apparently.http://www.marmite.com/)

i've seen them live a couple of times, and both times they've floated my boat. i simply enjoy where they've set their limits for noise, transients etc. some bands (and some autechre tracks) push it too far, some not far enough.

take Skinny Puppy. i love Skinny Puppy. lots of people think that means you automatically like Front 242. I do not. i think that Skinny Puppy have taste and care for their sound, whereas i just think Front 242 use noise for the sake of it. i'm sure some out there disagree.

some would argue that you have to be on drugs, but i don't think being on drugs automatically makes you enjoy a band. i couldn't see myself necking 5 pills and enjoying a night of UK Garage.
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opg



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was in 8th grade when I first heard Skinny Puppy. It scared the shit out of me. Shocked
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Forget Arnold Schoenberg.


I could never do that. I'd end up with only half of my musical life. My life changed a few times. Once when I first heard the 4th movement of Charles Ives' 4th Symphony and again when I first heard Moses and Aaron by Schoenberg. Many other strong influences, but these were life changers.

I assume "Forget Arnold Schoenberg" is a rhetorical device. Confused

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, well.. we have to make you suffer the brilliance of Fartein Valen. Arnold is kinda like Deep Purple and what you want is a Led Zeppelin Very Happy Laughing
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I never got into Deep Purple or Led Zeplin... Shocked
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know. Laughing
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To me, Amy X Neuburg's stuff is new. It is a unique combination of pop, opera, avant garde, and electronic music.

Also, at electro-music 2006 I heard several things that were very new to me. I'm thinking particularly of Zynthetix's (Ambiguous Nouns) last piece made on the G2. Quite original in sound and structure.

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orczy



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mi_dach wrote:

I think one possible future direction for electronic music is taking the focus away from all that high end, incredibly expensive gear.


Indeed. I myself have never been in favour of "new" equipment. The older the better as far as I am concerned. I have just updated though. From a 100 year old harmonium, to a 1985 Yamaha organ. Not only old, but unhip as well. Maybe that is the future?
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opg



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

orczy wrote:
Not only old, but unhip as well. Maybe that is the future?


Yep. Nerdy folks on Apple IIEs.....oh god! That's ME! Shocked

Good thing I never learned anything but BASIC. I will be totally uncool AND in-touch with future generations. Bizzaro world.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing


Trivia: Harald has his debut CD out.
http://www.schwerkraft.com/

he has been aorund for like forever. he finally managed to release something. That CD is quite remarkable. Recommended!

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eine atmosphärische Melange aus deutschem Chanson, Chill-Out-Elektronik und düsteren Wave-Schwingungen. Sehr intensiv, entspannt und eigenwillig - und hörenswert

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i agree with what Kassen said about interfaces, now that i've been back and looked through all the posts.

i think the same thing is happening with synths as happened with most instruments, except it's taking a little longer to develop a mature relationship between performer and instrument.

how long had the violin been around untill we got a pagannini?
how long had the piano been around untill we go Liszt? (and just as importantly his Transcendental studies, still a litmus test for piano users)
how long had the electric guitar been around untill we got Hendrix? (ok, untill we got Van Halen...)

i recently saw someone called "Tim Exile" live. he did his entire set using reaktor and his voice, doing a genre called "Gabbaret".

he shouted, abused and joked with the audience wearing a headset microphone. then you'd hear his voice stuttered as he caught various elements of his voice and developed his speech, screams, shouts, coughs and pitched notes into drum'n'bass-cum-gabba.

it's probably the first truly virtuoso performance i have seen that actually inspired me to stand stage left and look over his shoulder to see just how much of it he was having to control and how delicately he was having to be with feedback loops, filter tweaking etc.
his hands were moving very fast, his adjustments were for the most part subtle, and although the music was hitting you like a sledgehammer, i realised i was watching something more than your pattern changing parameter tweaking electronic performance.

i'm still blown away by his performance and can't wait to see him again.
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opg



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:

he shouted, abused and joked with the audience wearing a headset microphone. then you'd hear his voice stuttered as he caught various elements of his voice and developed his speech, screams, shouts, coughs and pitched notes into drum'n'bass-cum-gabba.


That IS impressive. Now let's see someone combine that technique with the new app that will convert your beatboxing into actual drum samples - and then adjust the mix of the two - the vocals and drums fading in and out. I am very intrigued....
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
i'm still blown away by his performance and can't wait to see him again.


If you check the Native Instruments Reaktor forums you'll see that his ensemble is the most sought after object - they have whole multi page threads dedicated to it. There's also a video on the NI website where he details how he plays live. It's nothing ground breaking technically (like the violin 50 years after it was made), and it wouldn't be hard to set up something alot like it in Ableton with Suppatrigga or Beatrepeat and some decent effects with controllers. Playing it well is the challenge, and the way he performs with it is pretty amazing.

edit: OPG, check out Kid Beyond. He has a video on the Ableton website. Everything that comes out of Ableton originates in his vocal chords. It's pretty crazy stuff!
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah. re: Tim Exile, i played a gig with kraked.co.uk recently and they had him a few months earlier.

many of his gigs he just fucks around. i've got pictures of him standing naked on his keyboard with a microphone gaffer taped to his face.

the general consensus amongst kraked (as they all nodded sagely) was that genius's often get bored.

Tim Exile's idea isn't original. hell, i had the idea when i was about 15. but the point is he'd done it, invented gabbaret (which i'm 83% certain will die with him) and became an awesome entertainer/performer in the process.

however, it seems as if the brightest candle burns the shortest.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
...it seems as if the brightest candle burns the shortest.

this is a general rule not limited to gabbaret Shocked

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AFAIR, the general rule re artists and musicians ( early 80s at least ) goes something like:

...it seems as if the brightest candle is a stick of dynamite

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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Afro88 wrote:

If you check the Native Instruments Reaktor forums you'll see that his ensemble is the most sought after object - they have whole multi page threads dedicated to it. There's also a video on the NI website where he details how he plays live.


arrow Tech Talk with Exile

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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chuck



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Perhaps what will be new is not so much the 'what' or 'how' of music but rather the 'why' and 'who' of music.

One of the points that gets bemoaned so often is that new music technology has opened the door for many untalented musicians (mostly ones who have not paid the same dues as others) can make music, or at least record sounds competenly. I'm gently suggesting that this might be the future.

Would it be a happier world if everyone, or nearly everyone was composing music for themselves? I think so. Boulez famous stuck his foot in his mouth many decades ago by suggesting that we destroy all the old music and tear down the concert halls. Perhaps a bit of dramatic overstatement, but still the intention is intreging that we turn our minds from the past and to the future.

Is it important that we hear all the music that is composed? Is it important that music we compose be heard by others? Is self expression in terms of music composition a goal unto itself and a worthy exercise regardless of the outcome?

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opg



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chuck wrote:

Is self expression in terms of music composition a goal unto itself and a worthy exercise regardless of the outcome?


Yep. I'd be pretty damn bored if I wasn't working on music. Going to work, coming home, mowing the lawn and eating dinner without a thought of a song I was working on would be pretty depressing.

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brams



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But what I actually miss, is a clear view of the "music industry" from these times, and how you get to actually be a musician as your job. In traditional jazz it's easy, you just go to jam sessions, meet people there and that's how you roll in the scene. But as far as i know, there are no jam sessions for electronic music, so how do you really get to know people?
I suppose the only place where to find those artists you could work with is on the internet. But I've never found a person on the internet that i could work with (yet)... So that's what i mean. Any ideas about this?
Thanks
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brams wrote:
I suppose the only place where to find those artists you could work with is on the internet. But I've never found a person on the internet that i could work with (yet)... So that's what i mean. Any ideas about this?


This is essenially the reason this site exists.

You can contact anyone on the site or the internet by email of whatever and suggest a collaboration. Better yet, when you see someone is relatively close to where you live, contact them for a get-together and a jam session.

Getting experience performing is difficult in some locales, but you can always perform using the streaming capabilities of electro-music.com. The members here are an excellent audience.

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kijjaz



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Beatles Rocks.. -_-"

just kidding (but i really mean it..) lol.
ok anyway i'll tell talk about my ideas also.
i'm not a very experienced composer,
but i'm a very very happy composer. lol..
usually, i love hearing and playing something i haven't heard before
or haven't expected.

what i which to see in the music of the future are these:

- the technics in each area/style/mood/community/culture of music can be shared..
for example, the technics for developing rhythms can be used in note selection of harmony..
the technic in the voicing can be used in rhythm development..
raga (north indian classical) structure & improvisation idea can be applied to granular synthesis parameters..
bossanova with hard core punk rock mood..
woodstock of chant/religious music..
animal orchestra.. (i guess they've been doing a lot of this by now)
serious meditation music.. kung fu music.. music magick..

these are just some examples of the technic-crossing i was talking about

- more 'therapy' music ideas
so that one piece of music can be used effectly for all this: entertainment, relaxation, meditation
or pop music that plays/adjust/reset the nervous system

(eh.. doesn't it sound a little bit scary??)

- - -

ok this is all i'd like to see in the future.

latin hard core jazzy electronic transexual boyband... -_-"
extreme oriental 12-tone hilltribe gospel..... -_-"
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opg



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kijjaz wrote:


ok this is all i'd like to see in the future.

latin hard core jazzy electronic transexual boyband... -_-"
extreme oriental 12-tone hilltribe gospel..... -_-"[/color]


Wow. You just blew my mind. Shocked

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