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Do you have a favourite key while composing? Major or minor?
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chuck



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:
A perfect fifth is another name for a major fifth.


Never heard of major 5th either.

If you lower a Perfect 5th by a half step it becomes a Diminished 5th. If you have something you are calling a 'major 5th' then lowering that a half step would make it a 'minor 5th'.... and so on, a 'major 5th' lowered 2 half steps would then be a diminished 5th. At this point we have two different sounds with the same name; the diminished 5th that comes from a Perfect 5th (lowered one half step) and a 'diminished 5th' that comes from a 'major 5th' (lowered 2 half steps).

That makes for communication problems.

We all know the perils of "talking about music". Keeping a steady and accepted vocabulary is one of the important tools musicians must maintain.

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opg



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hold on- you're talking about a tritone, right?

People are confusing major and minor chords with intervals.

Surprised

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would argue that a d doesn't sound like an f transposed 9 halftones up (did I get that right?) even if you used the same kind of barré-chord (is that what it's called? I mean when you put your index finger across the neck and the other fingers in typical e chord position) for both. The sound of a guitar string changes dramatically as you move the finger towards the middle, due to the resonating overtones when your at a simple fraction (i.e. 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 of the string) and possible other things as well.

Similar things probably happen in most "real world" instruments.

Sorry about the overuse of parentheses Smile

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
I mean when you put your index finger across the neck and the other fingers in typical e chord position) for both. The sound of a guitar string changes dramatically as you move the finger towards the middle, due to the resonating overtones when your at a simple fraction (i.e. 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 of the string) and possible other things as well.

/Stefan


Yeah, that kind of bugs me! I feel like I lost all ability to tune a guitar when I first noticed that. It was the G I could never get right, because it is the only third in a barre chord.

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Keysandslots



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Do you have a favourite key while composing? Major or minor? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's a perfect 5th, diminshed 5th and augmented 5th, but no such thing as a major or minor 5th. The same thing goes for the 4th. A tritone is b7 (flat seven) and major 3rd.

For piano players, if you wanna do some quick cool blues, use a standard jazz-ish 12-bar blues progression, play the tritones with your left hand, and the blues scale with your right hand. For example, left hand, in C, would be one bar of C7 (E and Bb), one bar of F7 (A and Eb), two bars of C7, two bars of F7, one bar of C7, one bar of A7 (G and C#), one bar of D7 (F# and C), one bar of G7 (F and B), two beats of C7, two beats of A7, two beats of D7 and two beats of G7. Over all of that play, in any order, play only the notes of a C blues scale (C, Eb, F, F#, G, Bb).

Randy
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome No'am, great to have you here.

Ahh, guitars - tuning them is a lot harder than most people think, unfortunately. Very Happy

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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

Ahh, guitars - tuning them is a lot harder than most people think, unfortunately.

...but tuning people is a lot harder than tuning guitars Cool

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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No'am



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
welcome No'am, great to have you here.


Pleased to be here. I hope that I can learn as much as I can contribute.

Going back to keys, I remember reading a book called "How to write a song" (or something similar - it was over 30 years ago!) in which each key was described in terms of an adjective. I could never hear the difference myself, but then I have relative pitch, not perfect pitch.

Remember, "D minor is the saddest key of all" (Spinal Tap, I believe)
"You have to like D minor a lot to be in our band" - Frank Zappa.

I did an arrangement of the Pat Metheny tune, "James", not so long ago - in D, because that was the key in which the sheet music was written. I use a MIDI sequencer to write the notes and then "play" them through Reason. There's a part in my arrangement which was originally assigned to a flute which I later assigned to an oboe; at one point, the part is too high for the oboe's range so there are a few notes missing. So here I should have transposed the music down by a few semitones in order to include all the notes.
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Keysandslots



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Do you have a favourite key while composing? Major or minor? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can tune a piano but you can't tunafish. Sorry, I've always liked that one.

Randy
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chuck wrote:
Keeping a steady and accepted vocabulary is one of the important tools musicians must maintain.


The language of real "musicians" is all Greek to me. Why can't anyone say what they mean? Rolling Eyes
Sorry, maybe it's just the way my head works, but when you take relatively simple concepts and then cloud them in an incomprehensible gobbledy gook of overly esoteric clicky lingo, I can't help but feel that it's actually a form of elitism, or snobbery. Razz
Again, I'm sorry for that little rant. I didn't sleep well last night and woke up with the grumps. Embarassed
I feel much better now. Smile
Maybe I should have a BEX and lie down for a while. Confused

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seraph
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus
in your previous posts you used 5 emoticons (all different). very thoughtful of you. I get easily bored seeing an emoticon more than once inside the same post. Cool

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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K



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:

Maybe I should have a BEX and lie down for a while. Confused

do you mean a BECKS Question
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, BEX was an old Australian headache powder which contained a barbituate. It was a classic "mother's little helper" during the 50s and 60s.

Seraph, when I'd finished typing that rant in, I read over it and thought it seemed a bit histrionic. But I don't like editing myself, so I sprinkled it with emoticons as a way of taking the edge off it a bit. I'm really a gentle giant at heart.

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seraph
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I'm really a gentle giant at heart.

I am sure you are Very Happy

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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ThreeFingersOfLove



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
ThreeFingersOfLove wrote:
A perfect fifth is another name for a major fifth.

it sounds Greek to me


Very Happy

A major fifth is actually something that originates from the actual intervals present in the chord, and although you may argue that a minor chord also has a interval of a major fifth, that name is seldom used.

I have also heard the name "clean" instead of perfect, but rarely. (My piano teacher never used either of these terms).

And yes, it is the actual intervals between the notes that comprise a chord that give names to the chords themselves. So you have minor or major, and diminshed, perfect (or major or clean or whatever), or augmented.

Other names and configurations are also possible (depending on mood), especially for "jazzy" people Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
chuck wrote:
Keeping a steady and accepted vocabulary is one of the important tools musicians must maintain.


The language of real "musicians" is all Greek to me. Why can't anyone say what they mean? Rolling Eyes
Sorry, maybe it's just the way my head works, but when you take relatively simple concepts and then cloud them in an incomprehensible gobbledy gook of overly esoteric clicky lingo, I can't help but feel that it's actually a form of elitism, or snobbery. Razz
Again, I'm sorry for that little rant. I didn't sleep well last night and woke up with the grumps. Embarassed
I feel much better now. Smile
Maybe I should have a BEX and lie down for a while. Confused


The good thing about music is that instead of trying to explain with words you can just go ahead and play it.

Talking about architecture is like dancing to music... or something...

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
The language of real "musicians" is all Greek to me. Why can't anyone say what they mean? Rolling Eyes
Sorry, maybe it's just the way my head works, but when you take relatively simple concepts and then cloud them in an incomprehensible gobbledy gook of overly esoteric clicky lingo, I can't help but feel that it's actually a form of elitism, or snobbery. Razz
Again, I'm sorry for that little rant. I didn't sleep well last night and woke up with the grumps. Embarassed
I feel much better now. Smile
Maybe I should have a BEX and lie down for a while. Confused


In the U.S. (maybe just the South), we have "BC Powder" instead of "BEX." The commercials all have grizzled old truckers in them, and in one ad, one of them says "It's not real pleasant going down, but it gets the job done." Laughing

BTW, I contributed a snob emoticon a while back: snob

Who knew people could be snobs about music? Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:

In the US it's most often called absolute pitch.


arrow Perfect Pitch in Tone Language Speakers Carries Over to Music

arrow Tone Language Speakers Possess Absolute Pitch

arrow Subconscious absolute pitch as a general trait

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The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils; the motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Erebus: Let no such man be trusted. - W. Shakespeare
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
bachus wrote:

In the US it's most often called absolute pitch.


arrow Perfect Pitch in Tone Language Speakers Carries Over to Music

arrow Tone Language Speakers Possess Absolute Pitch

arrow Subconscious absolute pitch as a general trait


Interesting! Actually, swedish differs from other european languages in that it has tones on a syllable level. Not as extreme as in chinese (I've studied some chinese and compared), but enough to cause particular problems for immigrants when trying to learn that, for instance, "stegen" can mean "the steps" or "the ladder" depending on in which tone you pronounce the first syllable (falling or rising, respectively). It has been speculated that this is the reason for the bizarre noise that the swedish chef makes in the Muppet Show (the joke of which is completely lost on a swede).

I wonder if a comparison between swedes and other europeans would show that more swedes possess absolute pitch? Very Happy

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a confession to make ... I am a seriously bad keyboard player, in fact I wouldn't even class myself as one Smile

But I am a stable guitarist, so I usually base all my pieces in guitar-friendly keys such as Em, Am, Gmaj, stuff like that.

Altho being as redneck slow as I am with keys, now and then I just resort to good ol' Cmaj Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Haha wow this post is about to have its first birthday Smile
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have perfect bitch: an 11 year olf female beagle.
seraph wrote:
mosc wrote:

Ahh, guitars - tuning them is a lot harder than most people think, unfortunately.

...but tuning people is a lot harder than tuning guitars Cool

I tune my banjos halfway up the neck, to distribute the fret error more evenly over the neck (rather than letting it pile up at the top end), and I retune ever so slightly when I change key or tonal center, to accommodate what I deem to be a 'root fingering position.' That way I can land on something consonant (assuming that's what I want), hitting the slightly detuned positions (they are always there!) as passing notes.

Key? I don't know, Mixolydian, Dorian, Ionian, Aeolian, major Phrygian, Locrian and assorted blues scale rooted in G, D and B in that order (open strings in my most used banjo tuning, useful for drones). Choked blue notes are a poor man's microtones. I'll also tune the low D down to a C and center using that on occasion. Everybody does it!

The long neck banjo drops these all by 3 semitones and adds some BITCHIN' sustain, thanks to the Tubaphone tone ring. Notes tend to fuse on this baby.

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, transposing stringed instruments always changes timbre. Instrument body & strings resonate less further up the neck.

I remember reading something Joni Mitchell once said about how Jaco Pastorius' accompaniment was so much better than other bass players with whom she worked, because they always wanted to know the key & changes ahead of time, while she was into experimental tunings and structuring around fingers and ears more than keys and charts. Jaco fit right into that.

Transposing becomes even more disruptive when you're feeding an FX chain that tranposes frequency instead of pitch, i.e., adds instead of multiplies. That seems to be happening with some granular delay I am trying out right now -- it seems to be adding rather than multiplying, thereby changing harmonic relationships -- because as I transpose a bar chord up the banjo neck, the FX become metallic and grating, and when I transpose back down, they sound more 'in key.' Gotta look a little deeper into this. Great way to do tension & release.

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kara



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To answer the original question of this post
I play live (keyboards) in a duo with a femal artist called 'Azell', she plays clarinet & sax. No quess our favourite keys ......





Yes Eb & Bb

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arcticbeard



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A favourite key? -
No I dont.
I play the notes I want.
I dont like rules. : P

Remember there are no wrong notes - just various levels of Dissonance

Also for those talking about whole tone scales - there are actually only two, as they overlap & repeat.

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