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Wogglebug circuit
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

unit-sound wrote:
Given the "Original" PCB design on the first page of the thread here:

- I built the circuit
- on "W-Tone" i get a high pitch waveform.
- on "S-Tone" i get a low (maybe around 440 Hz) waveform.
- on Ring i get an output like "digital"

This is definitely not right. I already checked the PCB for obvious errors or solder where it should not been... found some, fixed all. still the same problem...

for the NPN's i use 2N3904, the rest is default. Resistor values are according to the diagram.

Just to get everything right: can somebody verify if the pots are done correctly or post me a short list ?

*sigh*

Anybody able to help me and giving me ideas where to look for (or measure).

Any help appreciated.


sounds like the clock/SH is not going. are you getting pulses out fo pin three of the 555? anything out of the stepped out?

b
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pin 3 of 555 -> Pulses.
Stepped out -> combined with the RATE pot, i have those results:

- Fast on 1 and 10
- Slowerno 4 and 6
- Slowest on 5 (middle of the pot).

So, yes... clock is being generated. Looks fairly o.k. to me ( i connected it to the CV1-IN of the PS3100 reso pcb).
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a) I found i mixed the 51K and 1M resistors, so i fixed that.
b) I again "checked" all the jacks & pots:

SMOOTH JACK
silent when rate pot 0-4, maximum at 5 , 6-10 pulse like incteasing, like LFO
STEPPED JACK
- pulses, same behaviour somehow like smooth
WOGGLED
- nothing at all
RINGMOD
- digital signals, sound like listening on 8 bit data bus
W-TONE
- high pitch tone, static
S-TONE
- low pitch tone, static
STEP CLK
- the more CW, the louder a sine like signal is audible.


connections are:

STEP LIMIT POT
- R8C/ R8B/R8a
WOGGLE POT
- R21A/21B (over middle+left pad on pot)
S RANGE
- R13
W RANGE
- R19B/R19A
RATE
- GND, middle pin to CV in, +15V

jacks:

smooth = smooth cv
stepped = stepped
woggle = woggle out
ringmod = rm1
s tone = smooth tone
w tone = woggle tone

anybody got a clue ?
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i replaced some chips and now somthing seems to work, however _not_ close or similar to the examples on the webpage itself (wiard's one).

Connected the respective pot to a VCO CV1 (and scope) i get results:

STEPPED: looks okay.
SMOOTH: some result, don't know if it's right
RIGMOD: digital sounds, but changes when W/S TONE POT is moved.

i still have NO result on woggle out or result when turning R21A/B (woggle)

-- but i tried changing the CD4046 ...

any ideas ?
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Unit-Sound

If you can hang in there another day - I can jump in and assist. I'm knee deep in wrapping up a quad lo-pass gate clone.
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
Hello Unit-Sound

If you can hang in there another day - I can jump in and assist. I'm knee deep in wrapping up a quad lo-pass gate clone.


Sure, no problem. Good luck with the LPG-C Smile
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

¡Hola hunit Sound!

Tonight I made some measurements. They're only a rough guide, but should be enough to help you debug further. All part references below are based on the wogglebug #3 schamatic on Musicsynthesizer.com

The best place to start is with the 555's pulse output at pin 3. Do you have a pulse like waveform (mine looked like pulses with a sloped top, roughly 0-+5V. This is the pulse that triggers the LF398 sample and hold chip.

The next thing to look at is pins 3 and 5 of the 398. On mine, it looked like a stairstepped saw like waveform - steps ranging from +5 to -5V.

Next place to probe is the top CD4046 - this is the "Smooth" PLL/VCO/RM: pins 9 and 10 will have slewed (rounded, wobbly stairsteps) versions of the stuff you saw at the 398 output (pin5) . This double-vactrol slewer is from Buchla's Source of Uncertainty 266. Also, turning the pot labeled R9 (Rate/speed) should change the amount of skew on the S&H output.

Next look at pins 3 or 4: you should get a nice hot pulse output (+10 - -10V). Pin 2 should get something similar, but ring modulated by the other 4046. changing the pot R28 (smooth rate). What's going on at pin 14, the 4046's signal input? Anything going in?

Now look at the same pins on the bottom 4046. This is the woggle PLL/VCO/RM. You should get similar signals as in the top '46. Pin 10 is the "Woggle output", which should be a slow, randomish sinewave. changing R21 (Woggle Time) should change what you see at pin 10. Pins 3&4 a +/-10V pulse wave. Pin 2 the RM version. Again, look at pin 14 - it should be the smooth output from the upper '46.

So basically - break it down. Start with the 555 - follow its output to the LF398 S&H, then top 4046, which should be both generative (VCO) and modulated indirectly the the 555 and directly by the bottom 4046 (which is also generative).

Also, be sure that you use static protection when handling any CMOS chips. This includes any IC in the CD4046 family. If you look at CMOS chips funny, they fail, they're that sensitive - so make sure you're grounded when removing those chips from their tubes or foam.

Well, shit. My pizza's burning in the oven and my beer's getting warm. Gotta go, kiddies!

Cool Cool Cool
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
¡Hola hunit Sound!

Tonight I made some measurements. They're only a rough guide, but should be enough to help you debug further. All part references below are based on the wogglebug #3 schamatic on Musicsynthesizer.com

So basically - break it down. Start with the 555 - follow its output to the LF398 S&H, then top 4046, which should be both generative (VCO) and modulated indirectly the the 555 and directly by the bottom 4046 (which is also generative).


a) I checked the 555 - those is fine . getting something like pulse Smile
b) Pin 3 and 5 look like you described.
c) the smooth 4046 seems fine as well, pin 14 has strange signal, looks like doubled wave
d) The lower 4046 has a similar signal like pin 14. I'll exchange both and see what happens.
e) I assume the non-electrolytic might be messy. i'll see what else i can put in.
e) Literally, on Woggle OUT i am getting nothing at all

So .. I'll exchange the 4046 carefully and the non-elco to something else
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 425
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Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

unit-sound wrote:
vtl5c3 wrote:
¡Hola hunit Sound!

Tonight I made some measurements. They're only a rough guide, but should be enough to help you debug further. All part references below are based on the wogglebug #3 schamatic on Musicsynthesizer.com

So basically - break it down. Start with the 555 - follow its output to the LF398 S&H, then top 4046, which should be both generative (VCO) and modulated indirectly the the 555 and directly by the bottom 4046 (which is also generative).


a) I checked the 555 - those is fine . getting something like pulse Smile
b) Pin 3 and 5 look like you described.
c) the smooth 4046 seems fine as well, pin 14 has strange signal, looks like doubled wave
d) The lower 4046 has a similar signal like pin 14. I'll exchange both and see what happens.
e) I assume the non-electrolytic might be messy. i'll see what else i can put in.
e) Literally, on Woggle OUT i am getting nothing at all

So .. I'll exchange the 4046 carefully and the non-elco to something else


Anything at pin 10 of the lower '46? Swapping the two out is a good idea, especially if one works. Which non-electrolytic do you mean? C7?
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

exchanging of both chips does not help.
I am getting no output of the Woggle out Sad

i am referring to this :

http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/wogglebug3_pcb_parts_100.jpg

i mean the 3.3 uF non polar. on the right side, C8 on the original diagram.
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The Alison Project



Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finished my Woggle today, the version vtl5c3 posted and it works great.

Unit-Sound: did you ever get your working?

I found one discrepancy. vtl5c3's component diagram has the resistor between pins 3 and 4 of the vtl5c3 as a 10K where the schem shows a 10M, I used a 10M and my woggle is bugging out.
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Photon



Joined: Mar 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Alison Project wrote:
Finished my Woggle today, the version vtl5c3 posted and it works great.
.


Awesome news! I've been wanting one of these for yrs. Thanks for the heads up about the resistor.

P.

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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Alison Project wrote:
Finished my Woggle today, the version vtl5c3 posted and it works great.

Unit-Sound: did you ever get your working?

I found one discrepancy. vtl5c3's component diagram has the resistor between pins 3 and 4 of the vtl5c3 as a 10K where the schem shows a 10M, I used a 10M and my woggle is bugging out.


ill try that out today. maybe that's the problem ???
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@Alison:

Nope. I did change the 10K to 10M but no change in the behaviour of the wogglebug. no output at the woggle out Sad

@vtl5c3: any more hints/tips for me ?
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can somebody please check if the VTL5C3/2 and the VTL5C3 are wrongly described/labeled in the schema ? for me it seems i need to change 1 and 2 on both.

I'll have replacement ones, as i would assume there's something broken ...
Or do somebody has an idea how i can verify the VTL's operation ?
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Randaleem



Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 456
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

unit-sound wrote:
Can somebody please check if the VTL5C3/2 and the VTL5C3 are wrongly described/labeled in the schema ? for me it seems i need to change 1 and 2 on both.

I'll have replacement ones, as i would assume there's something broken ...
Or do somebody has an idea how i can verify the VTL's operation ?


It's a diode on one side and a resistor on the other. Check the diode side forward and reverse. One direction should read high resistance; the other direction should read low. If your MM VOM has a diode check setting, use it. Then check the resistor side for resistance. Assuming that's all okay; then apply some current to the doide side (lighting the LED), whilst measuring the resistance of the resistor side; and looking for a change.

Randal
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

R13 = 1M = Smooth Range

That was the culprit. The missing connection to the earth Sad

Now it's woggle and bugging like crazy...

thx for all help
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Mainz, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has anybody interest on a group-buy organized professional pcb (designed by Ryan Williams) from a pcb manufacturer.

More info at: http://diy.czmok.de/Group-Buys.66.0.html

Please drop me a PM if interested.
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dar303



Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
This is my first post on this forum!

I just ordered and paid for two of the boards, great arrangement!
Where can I find information about the modifications mentioned at http://www.sdiy.org/destrukto/index.html, partslist etc?
I have read the Wogglebug thread at this forum and found http://www.pugix.com/wogglebug.htm with lots of great info but those changes to the circuit doesn't seem "minor"? Smile

anyway, thanks!
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am working currently on the parts list and try to get a schema file out.
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dar303



Joined: Jul 15, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I refreshed the page and there it was! Thanks!
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The bubblewrap letters have arrived. I am starting now to label them.
Also the order for the PCB is placed, i'll get a reply soon.
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janvanvolt



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 285
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

**** GROUPBUY CLOSED ****

We have successfully received 100 orders !!!
Most of the people have already payed, those who don't will be invidually contacted in the next days (you might want to checkout first in order to avoid me double working).

the letters are all labeled and ready for shipping, now i wait for the PCB's to arrive in the next days.

I'll keep you updated.
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sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

did you send out your Kontonummer/BLZ? if so, I didn't get it Smile
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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would anyone be interested in sharing a Mouser, Futurlec, Digikey, or other supplier parts order list for this for us noobs?

Searching for just the right stuff among so many options is frustrating.

I'd like to submit this idea as a standard support component for all PCBs..

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