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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nomad - NM1 Open Source Editor
Looking for developer ...
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chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Looking for developer ... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

we are looking for someone who can help us out with the Nomad project.

For the next release of Nomad in about 2 months we want to complete reverse engineering the NM1 midi protocol. Therefore we are looking for someone who is able to analyze remaining parts of the midi protocol and document them for us. The documentation can be provided in a simple text file.

To listen to the midi messages you can use a programm called midiOx in combination with midiYoke, both are available here: http://www.midiox.com/

As reward you will be mentioned in the credits of Nomad Very Happy .

If you have questions or if you are interested in helping us please post your message in this thread. Before offering your help please be sure that you have the necessary skills and the time to do this job.


Thanks in advance,
Christian

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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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G2 patch files: 319

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Christian, where can I find the best overview of what is currently known and not known of the communications protocol ?

I think you and/or Marcus must have gathered quite some more info than the sketches I have on my site, but it seems pretty much undocumented - maybe something I could work on a bit, make some HTML for it.

Unfortunately I won't be able at the momement to find out new info, a while ago I gave away the MIDI interface that would work with the NM Classic to someone needing it more.

And a possibly interesting cross link : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-97465.html

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also .. please don't march .. we are on a bridge right now.
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chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Christian, where can I find the best overview of what is currently known and not known of the communications protocol ?

Sadly we do not provide a documentation/implementation overview yet. But I can summarize the missing parts here. Before I start let me say that each operation has it's equivalent midi message. So for the following operations this message is unknown yet:

- assign morph to parameter
- deassign morph from parameter
- set parameter's morph value
- set morph[1-4]' value
- assign midi controller
- deassign midi controller

- move several modules at once (message for single module is known)
- delete several modules at once (message for single module is known)
- add several modules at once (message for single module is known)
- delete several cables at once (message for single cable is known)
- add several cables at once (message for single cable is known)
there might be a single message which can be used to add/delet several cables and modules at once

- get patch name (patch not in slot A-D)
- set patch name (patch in slot A-D)
- save patch in synth

- set notes (text)
- set voice count
- toggle cable visibility after patch settings are set
- changes in patch settings dialog have to be sent to the synth

related to the synth:
- get synth settings
- set synth settings
these are the properties in the 'Synth Settings' dialog

I might have missed some messages, but this should be it in the main. Other messages are known.

Quote:
I think you and/or Marcus must have gathered quite some more info than the sketches I have on my site, but it seems pretty much undocumented - maybe something I could work on a bit, make some HTML for it.

Yes this would be great. But to gather the information I think you have to reverse engineer our source code, hihi Very Happy

It would be best if you check out the source code from cvs. Alternatively use the cvs browser:
http://nmedit.cvs.sourceforge.net/nmedit/nmedit/libs/

The folder codecs/ contain the protocol written down using marcus's protocol definition language (info about pdl can be found on the project website - see libpdl).

Also take a look at the folders jpdl/ and jnmprotocol/ which contain the implementation of the pdl language and the known messages.

I have also written down how the light messages work (for the little LEDs) and can send you this document. They are a bit tricky to understand since they have to be interpreted differently depending on the current patch.

Quote:
Unfortunately I won't be able at the momement to find out new info, a while ago I gave away the MIDI interface that would work with the NM Classic to someone needing it more.

At least there is someone who is happy Smile.

Quote:
And a possibly interesting cross link : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-97465.html

Thanks for the link, this is very interesting. This might be the start for someone to add a G2 implementation to Nomad. (I hope clavia doesn't read this Twisted Evil )

If you decide to make the html documentation write me a mail and I will send you the 'light message' description.

Christian

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Was affraid already I had to go into the pdl stuff Very Happy

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Jan
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Had a look around at the site and in some of my old stuff this evening.

I'll have to do so again to let it make sense for me, but while digging around I found some old stuff on my harddisk that maybe has some use. There seems to be a a cracking of the synth settings in it, don't know how accuarate it is though - being four years old.

Anyway, it's a zip with a pascal file and a color highlighted pdf print of it, for easier reading for those not having a pascal syntax highlighter.

(*)


ProtConst.zip
 Description:
Some NM Classic synth communications protocol stuff

Download
 Filename:  ProtConst.zip
 Filesize:  108.02 KB
 Downloaded:  285 Time(s)


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Jan
also .. please don't march .. we are on a bridge right now.

Last edited by Blue Hell on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Redeye



Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,
Perhaps I can help with identifying the PC-fNord midi messages.
Shall start tonight and grab the bits off the wire for both in and out.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Redeye wrote:


Seems you're pretty determined Smile

welcome here !

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Redeye



Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well the fact is I want Nomad on my G5 and the sooner the better!
Hey and thanks for the pascal dump it will speed things up a bit.

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chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
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Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Redeye wrote:
Hello,
Perhaps I can help with identifying the PC-fNord midi messages.
Shall start tonight and grab the bits off the wire for both in and out.

Hi Redeye,

thanks for your offer to help us. I have send you a private message.

Christian

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qfingers



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doing a google search, I found this:

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~rpointon/music/protocol.html

Is it any help?

q
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
Doing a google search, I found this:

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~rpointon/music/protocol.html

Is it any help?

q


That is for os 2.10 (and earlier) and that's very different, the os 3 release was a major change for the NM Classic on all fronts.

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Marcus



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chresan wrote:

- move several modules at once (message for single module is known)
- delete several modules at once (message for single module is known)


This is encoded in the midi.pdl file, but not implemented in the java message class.

chresan wrote:

- add several modules at once (message for single module is known)


When does that operation make sense?

chresan wrote:

- get patch name (patch not in slot A-D)


Do you mean the patches in memory? Can't you read them with GetPatchListMessage/PatchListMessage?

chresan wrote:

- save patch in synth


It looks like this is decoded in the midi.pdl file, but it is not tested, and no java implementation exists.

chresan wrote:

- set voice count


Use VoiceCountMessage.

I wish I had more time to work on this.

Marcus
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chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
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Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Marcus,

I have mistakenly concluded from the message implementations to the
missing pieces of the protocol. Perhaps, could make a summary of what is missing ?

Quote:

chresan wrote:

- add several modules at once (message for single module is known)

When does that operation make sense?

It makes sense if someone drags and drops several modules in a patch. For example if I drop n-modules then the sound will be interrupted n-times. Using a single message to add the modules will only cause one interruption.

Christian

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Marcus welcome
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Marcus



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chresan wrote:

I have mistakenly concluded from the message implementations to the
missing pieces of the protocol. Perhaps, could make a summary of what is missing ?


I think your list was quite accurate. I just wanted to make some clarifications.

Marcus
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durchgedreht



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject:  Midi Implementation Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I just got a used Modular (it became the Key version istead of the Micro wave ). Thanks blue Hell for answering my questions before thumb up
Now I have installed the Nomad on my Macbook Pro and it seem to work (I did not have the time for transferring any patches now).

I was wondering, if Clavia would not be interested having a living community and support you with oinformations for your project. Especially as they do benefit from the forum here extremly as they do link here in their official support. Didi someone ask them? Maybe it's time for them to give something back. And the peolpe here seem to be potential cutomers of the future (like the G2). Many of you seem to have both synths or maybe plan to get the G2 aditionally or switch.

Dennis
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wesen



Joined: May 05, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI, I'm starting to look a bit deeper into nomad, I have some trouble running it under macosx but it runs ok on linux. I have used the C++ libraries though to write a patch emrger, as well as a sequencer librarian (reload data into sequencers on the fly and on patch level). In the process of doing that I found a few bugs, especially with the RtMidi implementation for macosx (which seems to be broken at rtmidi level).

I haven't looked into all the java side just yet but I plan to do that once I have the important tools I need written, but I already have a lot of cool ideas for the patcher interface. So my question is: is this the place to discuss development issues? Somehow the link to the devel mailinglist is broken. Also: Whom should I submit patches?

Also: the note and control sequencers have no GUI for the values on my nomad install. Is that a missing feature or is something wrong on my side?

Keep up the great work, I hope to join soon Smile

Regards, manuel
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chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Manuel,

thanks for your interest in the Nmedit/Nomad project. Also thanks for pointing out that the link to the development mailing list is broken, so I can fix it soon.
About the incomplete modules: they were not implemented at the time of the release. In the development version of nomad the modules are almost complete now.
I am going to PM you in a moment and give you the details for joining the project, your help is very welcome Very Happy

Regards,
Christian

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julien



Joined: Dec 08, 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Manuel,

I am glad to see a new developer ! I think we all have a lot of ideas for the future of Nomad, and the more we are the more features nomad will have.

Julien
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