electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  EdisonRex Edison's Electronic Review
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » g2ools utilities
Hello Clavia!
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 4 [76 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:07 am    Post subject: Hello Clavia!
Subject description: List of names/nicks for Clavia to ponder
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear all!

Inspired by the recent heroic efforts by qfingers and 3phase I have initiated a List of Signatures at the Swedish music forum 99musik.se. The idea is to gather as many NM* users as possible and send Clavia a petition for further development of these excellent machines. We also want to ask them to release the source code for the NM Classic.

In a manifestation of consumer power I'd like to ask you all to join in. Any suggestions for improvements, ideas or general feedback can be posted here. I will let it develop for a week or so and then I will send Clavia a mail with the list of names and links for them to read.

I feel confident that this initiative will spread to other relevant forums, so please keep us all informed if you spread the word.

The aim is only to make Clavia aware of their users' desire to keep evolving their amazing machines, not to critisize (looks weird, hard word to spell...) or make them feel bad. A friendly but massive nudge in the right direction. Wink

Please go here http://www.namninsamling.se/forums.html?sida=2&nid=605(the site is Swedish so I kept it simple). You sign in the rectangular area to the right called "namn" (name). To send you click the orange rectangle "Skriv under" (sign). To see your name you click the orange button "Namn". If you want to add feedback click "Forum".



So let's go and make things happen! Wink

Last edited by sawtooth on Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
m:o



Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Freiburg

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, your idea is great --- open source code YEAH!!!!
but, link doesn't work Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mSurprised wrote:
Hey, your idea is great --- open source code YEAH!!!!
but, link doesn't work Sad


Yes... Working on it. Please try again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
m:o



Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Freiburg

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok. worked now........
Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20553
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You want me to sign a petition that does not have a text ? Nah, don't think so, sorry.
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
You want me to sign a petition that does not have a text ? Nah, don't think so, sorry.


You're quite right. I made it as simple as possible but of course there should be some statement as well. Please hold...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
You want me to sign a petition that does not have a text ? Nah, don't think so, sorry.


OK. I should have checked this before but it's not possible to change the list as soon as it's been activated. My mistake. But I promise I won't send it to Clavia before posting a copy of the accompanying mail here and elsewhere. I haven't actually formulated a statement at all except that I (and many others) want to make Clavia aware of our desire for development. It's not intended to be rude or annoyed or disrespectful at all. Just a reminder with some weight behind it.

It's your choice to sign or not. But I guarantee it won't be abused in any way.

If you still feel insecure about my intentions:

My real name is Joakim Montelius. I'm a member of the Swedish band Covenant http://www.covenant.se and a (mostly) very happy user of Nord Modulars since 1999. A recent photo:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20553
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sawtooth wrote:
If you still feel insecure about my intentions:


It's just a matter of principle for me to not sign anything I have not read and understood. It's not a matter of specific distrust of your intentions.

I think this subject is sensitive enough to require very carefully chosen wordings. I would very much like to see the NM code to be opened up, but it is not very realistic to expect a company to do such a thing, unless maybe you could show what benefits it would have for them to do so. For that you'll need a better plan than just send a bunch of votes.

Just to be sure, I do sympathize with this action, even though I really wouldn't know what to tell Clavia to convince them that publishing their secrets would be good for them.

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Certainly. I'm well aware that releasing the source code is probably asking too much. But then again, it has recently been shown by qfingers that the system has much to benefit from capable enthusiasts. This forum in itself is testimony to that fact.

Clavia is not a mega-corporation like Yamaha or Roland. They are basically geeks like us. And even though I'm sure they keep an eye at this forum I think (hope?) it might tip the scales a bit to our favour if we all respectfully ask them to consider these ideas.

The lack of development is probably not due to lack of interest on the behalf of Clavia. In a small company like that priorities must be set and economics must be considered. By releasing the source code or a modified developer's kit they could definitely benefit a lot from the considerable know-how and resourcefulness of their users.

So this petition is simply meant to serve as a reminder. To tell them that there is a whole host of people with skills and dedication to make their great equipment even greater.

And I'd be happy to see suggestions for how to express this. It is a sensitive matter and demanding impossible things makes no-one happy.

After all, even a read-through of some of the threads here should be a wake-up call, right?

Blue Hell wrote:
sawtooth wrote:
If you still feel insecure about my intentions:


It's just a matter of principle for me to not sign anything I have not read and understood. It's not a matter of specific distrust of your intentions.

I think this subject is sensitive enough to require very carefully chosen wordings. I would very much like to see the NM code to be opened up, but it is not very realistic to expect a company to do such a thing, unless maybe you could show what benefits it would have for them to do so. For that you'll need a better plan than just send a bunch of votes.

Just to be sure, I do sympathize with this action, even though I really wouldn't know what to tell Clavia to convince them that publishing their secrets would be good for them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with Jan. Signing something without seeing it is like signing a blank cheque.

I do like the idea of a petition asking Clavia for an update within a reasonable amount of time, or at least a realistic commitment to it. I would limit it to that. They will never release source code, just like I never will release my best patches.

Also, keep in mind that Clavia reads this forum and gets feedback for future updates from it. They are simply lurkers.

Maybe a petition here on em where people vote for an update might help. One of the options could even be we're willing to dish out x dollars or euro to get it if money is an issue (but of course this is moot, as clavia is dedicated to free updates) Wink

Just my $0.02 or 0.01e
/Dasz
ps.: Joachim, are you holding a NM1 in your hand or is it mounted at a neat angle (like Derek Sherinian has his set up)

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure. A vote/petition here is fine by me. It serves the same purpose. The idea is simply to make people gather and make a co-operative effort. It's real simple polemics: a few stray comments are easy to oversee, but a big list of dedicated users from respected (and probably lurked Razz ) forums is a completely different issue.

Please go ahead and make a vote/list/thread about this here. I will simply refer to it when I contact Clavia. Both ways work just as fine, I presume.

@Dasz: it's gaffa-taped to a normal x-stand. I usually have it on an autolocator stand on wheels, but it got lost at the airport. So at the picture I'm holding it, dragging the stand with me to across the stage. It's a lucky shot, but it makes the NM look good. Or the NM makes me look good, perhaps... Smile

dasz wrote:
I agree with Jan. Signing something without seeing it is like signing a blank cheque.

I do like the idea of a petition asking Clavia for an update within a reasonable amount of time, or at least a realistic commitment to it. I would limit it to that. They will never release source code, just like I never will release my best patches.

Also, keep in mind that Clavia reads this forum and gets feedback for future updates from it. They are simply lurkers.

Maybe a petition here on em where people vote for an update might help. One of the options could even be we're willing to dish out x dollars or euro to get it if money is an issue (but of course this is moot, as clavia is dedicated to free updates) Wink

Just my $0.02 or 0.01e
/Dasz
ps.: Joachim, are you holding a NM1 in your hand or is it mounted at a neat angle (like Derek Sherinian has his set up)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
it's gaffa-taped to a normal x-stand.


Does the tape come off easily? I once had a "drummachine.com" sticker on Papa Nord (NM Classic Key) which I removed when I sold it, and it left a slight discoloration due to the fact the sticker was on it for 5 years.

/Dasz

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4517
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This discussion is balancing on the edge...
First about the source code of the NM Classic. Clavia once told me they had the choice between cleaning up the system and develop it further or start a new platform, which they did and the G2 was born. The Classic also had very limited possibilities due to the PSU. At least, this is what I understood.

Of course is everybody in favour to ask Clavia to develop the G2 system further, but how to persuade them? The best way is to prove to them the G2 is a wonderful and a well to sell synthesizer, also to other musicians then the hard liner synth geek. Why is the G2 not a well selling synth? One of the reasons is the hard to use factory presets collection.

If we are able to make a fine collection of useable patches to the G2, maybe in different banks, like 'lead' sounds, 'electro' sounds, you name it, mostly electro music styles of sounds, even physical modeling and percussion, and sales would be increased, maybe we have a case...

At least, Clavia could be willing to help with the conversion project, or something like that.

Wout

BTW, what's that gadget taped to the NM and cabled to the inputs?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Absolutely. Excellent idea about the presets.

As you may see in my profile (or lack thereof) I haven't contributed to the patches posted here on this forum. But I have downloaded and used some of them, tweaked a few and made some of my own.

In order to present the presets to Clavia we/someone/the inventors should probably try to come up with a useful, coherent way of assigning the controllers. To me, apart from the sound and the obvious flexibility, the strongest selling point of the G2 is definitely its fantastic controllers. I have used a LOT of synths and I've never seen a more cleverly thought-out user interface. So whoever has the time and energy to compile a "best of" user preset collection should try to make the best possible use of this. The flexibility is amazing but it also scares off a lot of users who want hands-on instruments like the Nord Leads.

(edit: syntax errors corrected)

Back to the source code thing:

I don't think that anyone misunderstood the reasons for stopping development of the NM1. It just didn't make any sense for the company. But it would make a lot of sense for dedicated and skilled enthusiasts to keep working on it if only they could. I'm not a programmer and I may be completely off track, but I really don't see why an obsolete system can't be made available for their users?

In a way that's like discontinuing a hardware analogue system and also removing all components from the market.

However, these things are only up for speculation. Nobody knows and to my mind the only thing we can do is to try to let Clavia know about this considerable interest for further progress. It's a first step. If it's futile, at least we tried, right?

/j.

(The gadget is a mic amplifier for the headset, held in place with velcro tape. Boring but true. I wish it was some sort of Gizmo à la Godley&Creme, but I'm not that clever.)

Wout Blommers wrote:
This discussion is balancing on the edge...
First about the source code of the NM Classic. Clavia once told me they had the choice between cleaning up the system and develop it further or start a new platform, which they did and the G2 was born. The Classic also had very limited possibilities due to the PSU. At least, this is what I understood.

Of course is everybody in favour to ask Clavia to develop the G2 system further, but how to persuade them? The best way is to prove to them the G2 is a wonderful and a well to sell synthesizer, also to other musicians then the hard liner synth geek. Why is the G2 not a well selling synth? One of the reasons is the hard to use factory presets collection.

If we are able to make a fine collection of useable patches to the G2, maybe in different banks, like 'lead' sounds, 'electro' sounds, you name it, mostly electro music styles of sounds, even physical modeling and percussion, and sales would be increased, maybe we have a case...

At least, Clavia could be willing to help with the conversion project, or something like that.

Wout

BTW, what's that gadget taped to the NM and cabled to the inputs?

Last edited by sawtooth on Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes. Professional gaffa-tape comes off easily. It's not very sticky but extremely durable. I just wish they made it in Clavia Red. Cool

dasz wrote:
Quote:
it's gaffa-taped to a normal x-stand.


Does the tape come off easily? I once had a "drummachine.com" sticker on Papa Nord (NM Classic Key) which I removed when I sold it, and it left a slight discoloration due to the fact the sticker was on it for 5 years.

/Dasz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chresan



Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I really like the idea of such a petition. But personally I think it requires careful planning. It should be made clear to them what is demanded by the petition. Well, and the demands should be realistic and also be of value to us. Open sourcing their editor is not that important at all, it would be enough if they release the specifications of the midi/usb protocol, modules and patch file format. Additionally it would help if they use a license that would allow an open source project to use their artwork (icons) and the help files explaining the modules. Perhaps there are some other points, too. We should also reason, how Clavia can benefit from this. It could be mentioned that this would improve their customer relationship and things like that. Well, maybe there should be a kind of dead line for the petition, perhaps 2 Months, until we write them a letter/mail. Furthermore there should be a person that will represent the community and to who they can talk to.

Just a few thoughts,
Christian

_________________
----------------------
http://nmedit.sf.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good points made, Christian.
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 722
Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 22
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sawtooth wrote:
I don't think that anyone misunderstood the reasons for stopping development of the NM1. It just didn't make any sense for the company. But it would make a lot of sense for dedicated and skilled enthusiasts to keep working on it if only they could. I'm not a programmer and I may be completely off track, but I really don't see why an obsolete system can't be made available for their users?

In a way that's like discontinuing a hardware analogue system and also removing all components from the market.

However, these things are only up for speculation. Nobody knows and to my mind the only thing we can do is to try to let Clavia know about this considerable interest for further progress. It's a first step. If it's futile, at least we tried, right?


Although the NM1 hardware is now out of production, that does not mean that the DSP code is obsolete. I would be surprised if much of the "virtual analog" code is not being used in the current Nord Lead and G2 products. This alone would make it very unlikely that Clavia would release the NM1 DSP code to the public.

_________________
varice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Clearly the Korg N264 did not make the Synthi A truly obsolete. However, in the case of the NM-1, the editor must run on a computer and if this part of the product cannot be used, then the product is truly obsolete. The NM-1 and the concept itself is sound. What we need is enough information provided from Clavia in order to allow third party editors to be built that can run OK on new operating systems. We don´t need the dirty secret stuff.

The NM-1 is two things: The hardware and the software based editor to be run on a external host.

BTW: How many NM-1s were sold?

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4517
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
BTW: How many NM-1s were sold?

I heard figures around 2500 pieces, the Micro excluded, but no official statement about this.

It was until now Clavia's policy not allowing third parties, because the costumer would always turn to them when things would go wrong.

Anyway, my proposal about the presets is based on the principle: do something for them, they are willing to do something for you.

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you're completely right. That's the way to go.

Wout Blommers wrote:


Anyway, my proposal about the presets is based on the principle: do something for them, they are willing to do something for you.

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
monobass



Joined: Nov 30, 2004
Posts: 273
Location: UK
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chresan wrote:
Hi, I really like the idea of such a petition. But personally I think it requires careful planning. It should be made clear to them what is demanded by the petition. Well, and the demands should be realistic and also be of value to us. Open sourcing their editor is not that important at all, it would be enough if they release the specifications of the midi/usb protocol, modules and patch file format. Additionally it would help if they use a license that would allow an open source project to use their artwork (icons) and the help files explaining the modules. Perhaps there are some other points, too. We should also reason, how Clavia can benefit from this. It could be mentioned that this would improve their customer relationship and things like that. Well, maybe there should be a kind of dead line for the petition, perhaps 2 Months, until we write them a letter/mail. Furthermore there should be a person that will represent the community and to who they can talk to.

Just a few thoughts,
Christian


Good points Christian... I think the original petition was in good intention.. but random vague demands will only make Clavia ignore their NM customerbase more than they currently do... but the 'petition' link is down anyway Smile

_________________
Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hm. The "petition" is not down. The link seems to be different depending on if you're logged on or not for some reason.

And it's not about some "random vague demands". I don't want to make any demands at all. I just want to create a discussion and make Clavia aware of the interest among us users for further development.

So don't sign the "random vague demands" list if you feel it's fishy. As long as there is a discussion and constructive ideas are put forth it'll work just as well.

_ Steve _ wrote:

Good points Christian... I think the original petition was in good intention.. but random vague demands will only make Clavia ignore their NM customerbase more than they currently do... but the 'petition' link is down anyway Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
W.T.



Joined: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 262
Location: The Netherlands
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 11

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'll sign it! even if it is just because "Covenant - sequencer" is one of my favorite nineties albums
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sawtooth



Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Should I consider this thread dead and the attempt to ask Clavia for some development futile?

Like I said, no one has to sign the list (that has an impressive 27 names on it, at least 20 of which are Swedish Rolling Eyes ). It's sufficient to make comments/wishes, but if the interest to make a collective suggestion to them is this weak there is little point trying.

To me personally it's no major problem. I have a Classic and a G2X so I'm basically sorted. But I would love to see these machines get more longevity and it sort of bugs me that there is an obvious potential for interaction between the two that Clavia has not addressed.

I'll give it another week or 2. If you guys feel like adding anything, please go ahead. If you don't I will simply send them some feedback on my own, which I doubt will make much of a difference, but I'll do it anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 4 [76 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » g2ools utilities
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use