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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Electro-Music Klee Sequencer Build and Applications Thread
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sync24



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wmonk, thanks for the reply!
this is making more sense now Very Happy
i'll take your advice regarding keeping parts from the same manufacturers, the tip for the pcb cables is great, i'll try and find a uk supplier.

final parts i need to decide on are the LEDs and 2 x SPST (on)-off pushbutton switches. once i've worked this last bit out: one mouser order coming soon!

thanks Very Happy

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wmonk



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Use low current LEDs, you don't have to light your room with this sequencer.
I used different colours for max effect though, again matter of taste Smile

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wmonk wrote:
low current LEDs


In my world Laughing low current LEDs are high efficiency LEDs, which then output the same Lumen with a lower current ... so ... using these, with the same current limiting resistors in place would up the amount of light.

As I often see the subject of low current LEDs brought up here as an aid in getting less light ... erm ... Shocked

Anyway, tell me about your world Wink

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
wmonk wrote:
low current LEDs


In my world Laughing low current LEDs are high efficiency LEDs, which then output the same Lumen with a lower current ... so ... using these, with the same current limiting resistors in place would up the amount of light.

As I often see the subject of low current LEDs brought up here as an aid in getting less light ... erm ... Shocked

Anyway, tell me about your world Wink

well, If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrariwise, what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be it
would. You see?
albino


You're pretty much right about the LEDs, but there is a dfference between
high efficiency and low current. (though low current LEDs are sometimes
labeled as high effciency LEDs aswell).

Low current LEDs only need a low current as the name suggest, say 2mA.
If you use these as normal LEDs, which can take about 20mA, they will fry.

High efficiency LEDs are usually the clear ones that are very bright at 20mA,
but they also function at low currents (and are still bright).

For panels I would suggest standard diffuus LED's, you can't get them
in funky colors (or at least not as easy) and they don't look as spacey as
the clear ones. But at least you won't get blinded.
You could also use 'real' Low Current LEDs to save some power,
but than you have to change the resistor values.

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mark_olson



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:
wmonk wrote:
low current LEDs


...low current LEDs are high efficiency LEDs...


...there is a difference between high efficiency and low current. (though low current LEDs are sometimes labeled as high efficiency LEDs as well)


Hmm...So, Right now I am sourcing parts for a few modules by various well respected designers and forum members. Some specify "low current" LEDs and others specify "high efficiency" LEDs. I had assumed that I could order "high efficiency" and everything would be fine. Should I instead be making a closer study of the schematics to see if I can figure out how much current will be available to the LEDS in the different circuits?

Mark
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mark_olson wrote:
Hmm...So, Right now I am sourcing parts for a few modules by various well respected designers and forum members. Some specify "low current" LEDs and others specify "high efficiency" LEDs. I had assumed that I could order "high efficiency" and everything would be fine. Should I instead be making a closer study of the schematics to see if I can figure out how much current will be available to the LEDS in the different circuits?

It does depend on the circuit. 9/10 times LEDs will just be used as
an indicator with a simple current limiting resistor, in which case you
can use pretty much any LED according to your taste. But like Blue Hell
said, if you use high effiency LED's instead of 'normal' LEDs they will
be brighter, which I personaly don't find very practical.

Sometimes LED's are used for other purposes in a circuit (and may
function as an indicator at the same time). If it says high efficiency than
you probably need a LED that works at a low current.

So, yes the best way would be to look what the function is in the circuit.
And if there's a current limiting resistor see how much current the LED will
get. Rolling Eyes

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Pfurmel



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@sync24, thanks for posting that list, its a lifesaver, just spotted your thread on Muffs too.
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sync24



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, so i don't understand the LED talk, but i've managed to pull previous suggestions and help together now into the following list of parts for the Bridechamber front panel.

i'm sure both Pfurmel and myself would be most greatful for someone to cast their eyes over this one final time and give us a sign of approval before some money gets spent (or potentially wasted...).
oh, and as a novice i'll be buying spares of all the parts incase some don't work or i mess things up Wink

and i guess i'll need some way of mounting the two boards onto the panel... haven't thought about that yet...

thanks in advance!!!

here we go:

SPST on-off (doubles up for SPDT on-on) x 26 mouser pn: 1055-TA2120-EVX
SPDT on-off-on x 16 mouser pn: 1055-TA2135-EVX
100K linear pot x 3 mouser pn: 313-1000F-100K
50K linear pot x 16 mouser pn: 313-1000F-50K
1M linear pot x 3 mouser pn: 313-1000F-1M
¼ inch jack socket x 18 mouser pn: 502-112AX
SP8T rotary switch x 1 mouser pn: 105-SR2611F-18-21NS
Red LED x 22 mouser pn: 638-HLMP4700
CLIPLITE LED Holders x 22 
mouser pn: 593-3000R
SPST (on)-off pushbutton switches x 2 rapidonline (from this thread: >>here<<)
a pn for these pushbuttons at Mouser would be great, i started going cross-eyed looking through the catalogue...

[edit#1 - thanks to Michel @ http://www.synth.nl/ i've updated the SP8T rotary switch]
[edit#2 - thanks to both sduck and Michel i've updated the 100k, 50k & 1m linear pots]
[edit#3 - thanks to wmonk, have decided on 1/4 inch sockets Smile]

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Last edited by sync24 on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wmonk



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
¼ inch jack socket x 18 mouser pn: 502-112AX OR mouser pn: 568-NYS229L

Get the Switchcraft (112A) type. As they have a 'closed' frame, they're easier to plug in and out. And if I recall correctly, a few of the modular manufacturers use those. Smile

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sync24



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you woodymonk!
even though they are more than twice the price of the alternative, i'll go for the Switchcraft sockets, quality IS important!

'need to decide on the LEDs now, any one got any suggestions...?

cheers!

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wmonk



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You already got nice ones Smile
Only suggestion could be to colour code them. Like I've done on my Klee (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/woodymonk/5348488315 bottom machine with the most LEDs)
And good quality LEDs seem to be from Lumex, but I didn't try those myself.

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sync24



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, great thanks!
i got hold of a little LED holder the other day, 'never used one before, and it didn't quite fit in the panel. maybe i need a drill!

anyway, as long as these LEDs are ok to use without any further considerations or resistors, then i'll be happy.

i still haven't found any pre-wired connectors you posted for sale locally, maybe i'm not looking in the right places. i'm sure getting some of them from your link wont be a problem though.

thanks!!!
Very Happy

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sync24



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

woo! i got the PCB connectors from Musikding Smile and it looks like i need these knobs: 506-PKES60B1/4 which should be fine on the short pots i've listed...
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magman



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can also get these knobs from Farnell, along with their Multicomp equivalent which is considerably cheaper and avoid import duty, like these:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?id=1441057&Ntt=1441057

I've used both types and see very little difference to justify paying more than double the price.

"You pays yer money and takes yer choice" though.

Regards

Magman
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sync24



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one Magman, thanks for the pointer, i might be able to get these through work too...!
this build is expensive enough, that's partly why it's taking me so long, so if i can spend less - that's a bonus!
cheers Smile

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the exact same problem as below:

Neither the manual bus load button or the bus load switch will load the pattern.

Pin 3 of U5 (4013) gets a pulse when I push the load button and when the bus load switch is flipped.

However, nothing comes out of pin 1.

I've tried a totally different 4013 and a different U2 (40106).

Any ideas?

No solder bridges and the resistor values are fine.

Could a bad C9 or C10 (1n) cause this?


EdisonRex wrote:
KEYKEYEYEKIT wrote:
To back up a bit, bus 1 load did not work when stepped. I checked the path of the load button and the pulse continued into the 4013, but then did not exit from any of the other pins. All other IC's seemed to work fine until that point. I just want to see a proper load, then I will move on to the clock issue.


So you saw a pulse at U3 pin 10? Even if you press manual load switch? hm.

Well, check your traces on the board. It's a complicated build and one blob of solder can make trouble. It is entirely possible that you have one or more bad chips, which will complicate debugging. However, if you see nothing coming out of U5 pin 1 when pulses are present on pin 3, it implies either the 4013 is fried or something else is holding it up or down. U2, however, is involved in that part of the circuit now I look too, so that might still be the problem... still looks to me like everything you're having a problem with has something to do with U2.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i had a similar problem and it ended up being a resistor soldered into a via which was disguised as a through hole. i dont think im the first to make that mistake either
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As far as the LED's are concerned, most limiting resistors in the Klee design are 6.8K and with a 15V supply, each LED (assuming a typical forward voltage of 2.5V) will receive ((15-2.5)/6800) milliamperes, which equates to 1.84. Most standard LED's want to see about 10 to 20 milliamperes to get to full luminosity so lots of these "standard" LED's will be too dim for my liking. Some LED's types are made specifically for low power circuits and can be driven from low power logic circuits.

I recommend the use of this series LED's for the Klee which come to full luminance at 2 milliamperes:

Mouser Part #: 630-HLMP-4700

Take a peek at the data sheet. I am sure many other distributers stock these LED's.

Alternatively, another thing I have done is that I have purchased "super bright" LED's in bulk for very cheap prices in all sorts of colors. These LED's will be full brightness at 20 milliamperes but are too bright for the Klee BUT if you hit them with the lower 2 milliampere current, they illuminate at just the right amount in my opinion.

Hope this helps to clear up the LED issues,

Now for the LOAD issue, let me take a look at the schematic. Wink

Bill
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
i had a similar problem and it ended up being a resistor soldered into a via which was disguised as a through hole. i dont think im the first to make that mistake either


yeah, you nailed it! i found it just before you posted.

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Digital board:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seems that is U2 and R20 (????) according to the DIGITAL boards assembly diagram. R22 is over by U7. Question

Just an observation is all. The bottom line is everyone is happy and it's fixed ... Laughing

Bill
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, yes that's R20 Wink
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the Klee can make oscillators sound amazing when you feed one of the outputs of an oscillator it's driving back into the external variable range input. like some kind of buchla-esque fm Shocked
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Luka



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

glad to hear it is working Very Happy
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KEYKEYEYEKIT



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the tip on the variable input Sneakthief! I tried it and it sounded amazing! Can't wait to experiment more.
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