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 Forum index » News... » Apple Computers
Macporn Pro! 8-core
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Jyoti



Joined: Mar 07, 2008
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Location: Derby, UK
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Yeah, multi-tasking sounds like a pritty good idea.... except that multi-tasking for timing critical applications is insanely hard.

The idea of Unix (amongst which BSD and hence Darwin and so OSX) is to make sure all users (and processes) get their share of the cpu every once in a while... and that's at direct odds with realtime performance for a single process.

The one thing you could do is petition Apple for a realtime kernel like Linux has.


Kassen, you're just making me sadder... Sad

Honestly, if could wind back time and get my little G4 / OS9 back, never having bought my G5 or the Mac Pro...

In fact, if I could just stop Apple buying Emagic. Emagic were lovely, quick responses to bug reports, friendly and properly geeky about making music.

Apple is, in comparison, like dealing with a bucket of Sith. Evil or Very Mad

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Renoise is on OSX as well now? Wow.


Yep, yep! I only found out myself because of a post on this here forum! Smile

Quote:
I have no idea how they do it but those Renoise people are quite hardcore and trackers have a rich history of being optimised the living daylight out of.


Renoise is absolutely knob-on. It just has this amazing feel, reminds me of my old Atari. For me, it's difficult to put my head into tracker mode for writing. But it's definitely going to figure in future stuff I do, just for that feel.

Quote:
Logic on the other hand is by Apple and Apple makes it's money selling larger and larger computers; they'd be stupid to optimise. If they'd optimise you'd still be on your G4 and where's the money in that?


Oh yes. Logic grows ever more power-hungry and, thus, the upgrade cycle is maintained.

On the other hand, unless I drop them, I won't ever need to upgrade my Elektrons or MPC.

Quote:
Have you ever seen those graphs showing aliasing in time-stretch algorithems comparing -amongst other platforms- "serious pro DAW" Logic and "Relic of a bygone era" Renoise? Hint; it's not pretty,


sigh... Sad

Go on, point me in the right direction. I fancy some more masochistic chills...

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But you have a Intel-based Mac, right? Then you could also install XP on it (which is highly configurable and can be optimised for audio performance) or you could get Linux (which can work with a realtime kernel. You could even multi-boot beteen Linux (for experimental audio stuff and internet) and XP (for traditional DAW stuff). Just because you bought a Mac doesn't mean you have to be stuck on OSX.

I quickly Google but can't quickly find those graphs anymore and now I need to run out because I need to get some stuff before shops close. Will try again later because it was funny.

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
But you have a Intel-based Mac, right? Then you could also install XP on it (which is highly configurable and can be optimised for audio performance) or you could get Linux (which can work with a realtime kernel. You could even multi-boot beteen Linux (for experimental audio stuff and internet) and XP (for traditional DAW stuff). Just because you bought a Mac doesn't mean you have to be stuck on OSX.


You know.. I have thought about it but not that seriously. But with the knowledge this forum provides, I may just have a tinker!

Quote:
I quickly Google but can't quickly find those graphs anymore and now I need to run out because I need to get some stuff before shops close. Will try again later because it was funny.


No worries, dude! Enjoy your shopping! Very Happy

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Emagic AMT + Logic 8 typically provides very decent performance and on a very busy day / busy tune you can expect something like jitter in the 9 - 30 samples range, but say a stable average of 1ms should basically be it.

That being said, please remember back to the wonderfully dysfunctional 80s when you would discover that some devices would have nice outgoing midi performance but incoming events would suffer greatly. Or the other way around.. or something just as silly.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Midi itself on a protocol level is kinda dysfunctional. It is quite possible to embed midi events into TCP/ip packets or whatever and use way faster pipes than the standard serial MIDI bus, but eventually the midi packets will have to be returned to plain midi. I´d like to see the whole midi thingie to go ethernet CAT 5.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Midi itself on a protocol level is kinda dysfunctional. It is quite possible to embed midi events into TCP/ip packets or whatever and use way faster pipes than the standard serial MIDI bus, but eventually the midi packets will have to be returned to plain midi. I´d like to see the whole midi thingie to go ethernet CAT 5.


Yes, yes &yes. MIDI is downright atrocious. It's really no wonder at all that even modern computers have trouble with it....And that's without even going into how utterly ugly the whole protocol is.

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Kassen
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's one page on aliasing between various systems, I thought there was another one with better graphs but can't find it anymore.

http://www.simonv.com/tutorials/quality.php

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Jyoti



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Here's one page on aliasing between various systems, I thought there was another one with better graphs but can't find it anymore.

http://www.simonv.com/tutorials/quality.php


Great! So, if I want a great sampler I'm better off using Renoise which costs £40 than Logic which, so far, has cost me at least £1500, going by what I paid originally and the umpteen upgrades since...
Evil or Very Mad

Yep, seems reasonable to me!

You know, I try to explain to people why I still love my Emu rack sampler and they think I'm being willfully lo-fi or just a gear fetishist. It's nice to have something beyond my feelings to point them towards.

I'm off into the studio now to do some tidying up, use up some energy. It's either that or send yet another angry email to Apple. Twisted Evil

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Erm.... yeah, that's roughly what it's like... Unless Apple got such emails already since those tests were all over the net and maybe implemented proper re-sampling. It's not like aliasing-free re-sampling is rocket-science; there is a well known algorithm that'll take care of it called sinx/x.

Of course re-sampling isn't all there is to DAW's... there are probably few people that use Renoise for the re-sampling and I don't think many moved away from Logic because of these tests either, there are more important factors..... like them being very different kinds of tools.

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