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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
Press N Peel - which printer?
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 696
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

congrats!

i've found that thoroughly cleaning the board just prior to ironing on the transfer is the single most important aspect of the process. i do it pretty much as you describe: fine steel wool, followed by degreasing w/ comet/ajax cleanser, followed by distilled water rinse... shake off water, and into a warm oven to dry and preheat prior to applying the PnP.

b

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob wrote:
congrats!

i've found that thoroughly cleaning the board just prior to ironing on the transfer is the single most important aspect of the process. i do it pretty much as you describe: fine steel wool, followed by degreasing w/ comet/ajax cleanser, followed by distilled water rinse... shake off water, and into a warm oven to dry and preheat prior to applying the PnP.

b


Thankee greatly Bbob! Smile

My only difference, is preheating the PCB with the iron itself, seated on it, for enough time to heat the PCB as well as the wood beneath, that the PCB is seated upon.

As with the 1st success, the PCB functions perfectly as well. I just completed the 1st of the 2 Vertical Sequencers for my Quadatrix 4x4 Sequencer and am uploading a new video for it, to my youtube site. I'll have it posted to a new thread here in a few minutes. Smile
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have had good results cleaning the boards after the steel wool using just general purpose thinners used for spray paint it also takes off the toner very quickly later on and then just water
have noticed that the length of time you iron is also quite important
if you get good strong lines but the edges look a little fuzzy you need to shorten the amount of time under the iron i also use a piece of printer paper over the top when you can see the trace outlines on the paper you are close, you need a good light source on an angle to see this.
as for the printer i found that the best rest results where from a HP
running the PNP from the back as it is a straighter path than from the normal paper trays. i got less jams . i also print a normal sheet in between
every PNP sheet to to clean up the printer path.
when removing the PNP sheet from the board i have it taped on three sides i remove the tape from two sides and slide a piece of normal paper slowly between the PNP and the board you can see how exactly how well the transfer has gone as you go and if a small section hasn't transfered across you can stop and reapply the iron there without too much hassle .
doing this i have yet to need to use a pen for fix ups and i have done tracks down to 0.3 mm in express this way
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noisedeputy



Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Where is a good place to order PCBs for this stuff? I always see pnp for sell, but never the pcbs? I dunno.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

noisedeputy wrote:
Where is a good place to order PCBs for this stuff? I always see pnp for sell, but never the pcbs? I dunno.

Jaycar in Oz sells some at a reasonable price and you can order online a good deal at moment since our dollar is #%$* though i am not sure of their international sales policy or if they are in the U.S apart from them i haven't found many other places and the ones i did find were really expensive.
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if your in melbourne, its actually cheaper at dick smith electronics
i just noticed the other day when i went in there for some odds and ends
i would love to find somewhere cheaper though
i wish copper wasn't so darn expensive these days

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noisedeputy



Joined: Nov 15, 2008
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Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well no, I'm in US, so it'd be best if I could find a US source. Is this stuff less common than I thought? Hopefully some one knows a good place to get them around here.
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

noisedeputy - i've alwasy found the best prices at parts express:

http://www.parts-express.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=41&ObjectGroup_ID=206
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noisedeputy



Joined: Nov 15, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I feel like I saw 6x4" for cheaper on All Electronics, but the 2x4" is a good deal. Do they have them on mouser? Because I need to order stuff from mouser soon, so if they had them for a good price there I could just include them in that order. It'd be great if I could find it on that site.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a tip for those of us with Samsung ML-2010 laser printers

don't spend $125 on a new cartridge when the toner runs out.
it is easy to refill....like 3 minutes and a screwdriver easy
I got my refill toner off ebay - a Canadian seller called gnet2002
2 refill bottles for C$10, enough for 6000 sheets Smile
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bixmor



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all,
I had good results with the following models :
    Lexmark Optra T6xx (T620, T630, T634)
Best results (but with more practice Wink ) with :
    Samsung ML1640
    HP P1005
Regards
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acidblue



Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 192
Location: The Darkside

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there, lots of good info on this post.
I just picked up a HP laserjet 2200D for $40. from a guy who sold his business.
Does anyone have any experience with this printer? is it good for pcb transfer?

Also, what kind of irons are you guys using? or does it matter?
Will any old iron work or are some better than others?
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LektroiD



Joined: Aug 23, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm looking for a cheap laser printer for P&P, but none seem to work with OS X.
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bixmor



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
I'm looking for a cheap laser printer for P&P, but none seem to work with OS X.

I have a Samsung ML1640 which works fine with Mac OS X.
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dugernaut



Joined: Jul 24, 2009
Posts: 50
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Brother printer issues, and alternative to PnP Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,
My SteamSynth started by using PnP, lots of elbow grease (downward pressure) and just an OK yield.

I then found this outfit www.pulsarprofx.com and after talking to the owner/inventor Frank, I ordered their product package. They also have a really cool dry transfer process that I ordered but haven't tried yet.

I can't suggest it if your only doing a few boards because of the upfront cost of the "required" laminator machine ($70), but my results were night and day, even with my Brother printer. Which brings us to...

Frank at Pulsar was actually surprised that I got any kind of results with the Brother. The reason is that the Brother toner melts at a much higher temperature than most other manufacturers like HP. Frank suggested I get a cheap HP (<$100 on sale) and set it to the densist and thickest paper settings.

I got the printer because I started having problems all of a sudden for no apparent reason and he & I couldn't figure out the issues. Right now, we're pretty sure one of the two heaters in the laminator went bad, so he's sending me a replacement. I can't speak highly enough about the serviceI get.

If you send Frank a photo of whatever your finished product is, he'll send you a $20 credit for more supplies! Can't beat that with a stick! And - NO- I don't work there or own stock in the company!

Doug
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i should mention that i bought a hp5000n A3 lazer printer and it works great. It works over my home network connected to my router so works with any OS
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Brother printer issues, and alternative to PnP Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dslocum wrote:
I then found this outfit www.pulsarprofx.com


Last Sunday I made my first PCB with pulsarprofx materials (and laminator) and got a good result on my first try! So good, in fact, that I was able to drill and use the PCB for my project.

I really didn't expect to get a usable result on my first try -- I figured it would take a few tries.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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dugernaut



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Brother printer issues, and alternative to PnP Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
dslocum wrote:
I then found this outfit www.pulsarprofx.com


Last Sunday I made my first PCB with pulsarprofx materials (and laminator) and got a good result on my first try! So good, in fact, that I was able to drill and use the PCB for my project.

I really didn't expect to get a usable result on my first try -- I figured it would take a few tries.


Congrats Kevin. Pretty much the results I've seen! Whatcha working on, if you don't mind me asking?
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Brother printer issues, and alternative to PnP Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dslocum wrote:
Whatcha working on, if you don't mind me asking?


This board is a Yusynth Clock Divider. http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/DIVIDER/index.html

I am adding another 17 module-space cabinet to my Aries synth. Under construction now are: a Klee Sequencer, two Mega Percussive Synthesizers, two MFOS Voltage quantizers, and a Yusynth Clock Divider.

The Clock Divider uses little panel space so I will likely install a couple of LFOs along with the Clock Divider in the same module. This will leave another 7 (3" each) module spaces for future expansion. I want to add a Fixed Filter Bank however I may mod a FFB to use as a feedback network, too. I am also designing a VC Quad panner. Won't take me too long to fill up the new cabinet!

Now, to get this thread back on track -- I purchased a Samsung Laser printer to do PCBs and the DecalPro stuff.

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DGTom



Joined: Dec 08, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That board looks great, amazing for a first run round the block! I've been putting off going down the etching route due the cost on PnP & the less than scientific method - I have a bad track record with things like that if I'm honest.

I went thru the pulsarpro website & the tutorial on the website of the guy that distros it here in Australia. With the laminator it really seems to take all the "black magic" out of the process.

Thanks for posting that info guys Very Happy

I don't even have a printer at the moment, which is good I guess as I'll setting up from scratch, but, it looks like for a couple of hundred I could have a workable system.
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bubzy



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

im using a hp laserjet 4050 that i bought for £10.
but not using pnp paper, just using a thin sheet from a glossy magazine, great results.
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inlifeindeath



Joined: Apr 02, 2010
Posts: 315
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jameco is a good source for PCB material in the US, FYI.
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inlifeindeath



Joined: Apr 02, 2010
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

also, i'll just throw out there that i've had great success using cheap magazine paper instead of PNP. Just tape a piece of glossy, thin magazine paper to a piece of printer paper, print your traces, and iron like usual. Saves a ton of money!
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Satindas



Joined: Mar 26, 2011
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Location: uk

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just found this thread and thought I'd revive it with a little tip I came up with a couple of months ago (originally posted on muffs).
I was getting really bad transfers almost everytime (Brother HL2030 onto Staples Basic Photo Glossy), then I had the idea Idea to use the back of a spoon to rub the paper after heating with the Iron. It really works great! Its rare that I get a bad transfer now and the whole process is a lot quicker. Just heat the paper onto the copper, no pressure required - just get the thing HOT. Then rub hard all over. You can see where you've rubbed too because the paper gets shiny. I'd say that with the odd exception my transfers are now usually about 90-100% perfect with only minor touch-ups required.
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crazeydazey



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm thinking of getting a SAMSUNG ML-216 as they are pretty cheap in PC world at the mo..

has anyone successfully used this printer???

also I need it screen printing but I guess any lazer printer will print on acetate??

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