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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
the absolute beginners thread
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electri-fire



Joined: Jul 26, 2006
Posts: 535
Location: breda nl
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
Did some tweaking of the knobs yesterday and got a pretty cool sound going. I think it's mostly the 4015 delaying the song but im not really sure(and im happy with that Very Happy ).


Nice pattern. The 4015 COULD be credited for the delays, but not nescesarilly. It does delay your input 4 clockpulses at max, but I've had similar delay like effects going even without shift registers. I usually have a sound tapped from different locations into left and right channels, that may be gating a related/similar pattern in some alternating/repeat/delay-like fashion.

So, in case you're mixing multiple signals this mechanism may account for delay like repeats.

Disclaimer: electri-fire likes to theorise on what's happening, but at the same time endorses you enjoying the mystery. As he does himself.
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Top Top



Joined: Feb 02, 2010
Posts: 198
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:

That should work. Some opamps are "said" to need bipolar supply, but there's a way to eliminate the need for bipolar supply on opamps. What you do is put half the supply voltage on the other (opposing) input of the opamp. Example: if your sound goes into the + input of the opamp and you run your board on 9V, put 4.5V on the - input of your opamp. Now the -V can be 0V or Ground.

Half the supply voltage can be made with a voltage devider, two equal resistors in series between +V and ground. On the junction of the resistors half the supply voltage is availabe.


I thought it was the other way around - that the 4.5 V would be "ground" as it is halfway between (as zero would be halfway between on a dual rail supply) and that the 0v (physical ground) would fill in as the "negative" voltage?
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 353
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Disclaimer: electri-fire likes to theorise on what's happening, but at the same time endorses you enjoying the mystery. As he does himself.


Laughing theory is good, music and leds are better! Im so glad I put in all those leds on the board, visual feedback makes it just a whole lot easier to understand and follow the different paths.

Haven't been working on the board itself lately, the sun is shining and still working on this order im placing. Very Happy I don't know about you guys but whenever I order online I tend to keep adding and deleting stuff over a couple of days, just to be sure. Also found this:

flat leds(can be placed next to eachother!), usefull for my 4017 seq.
http://www.dickbest.nl/webshop/forums.html?act=viewProd&productId=424

I did get a lot of stuff done on the breadboard. I tried this:
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/monomixerpage.html with the voltage divider and 9v battery. It worked but not as I hoped, not really amplifying the sound, even with changing values. I think it was underpowered, anyone build this with 5 or 9v?

For me, simpler is better. I found this site: http://www.fluxmonkey.com/electronoize/passiveDividersFilters.htm
The lowpass and highpass filters work like a charm, I could get a decent sweep out of just 2 components! Hooking up a ldr and randomly placing it on some blinkies was a lot of fun. Ive added 2 simple recordings, the first is using a onboard led and some moving of the ldr to just demonstrate the filter. For the second one I used a hallmark greetingcard, destroyed the speaker and used the led pattern to activate the filter. Im going to keep an eye out for nice patterns of flashes coming out of kids stuff Smile

It's getting really crowded and messy on the table, this is my current set-up:
oscilators at audio rate for all the clocks
4040 plugged in randomly to 4051
4051 data output into 4015 data input
LFO controlling the 4015 clock
4015 to ABC on 4051 of a melodygenerator(on the breadboard)
output of melodygen to simple lowpassfilter with LDR(on the breadboard)
And some random gating LEDS
Rolling Eyes running out of jumperwires, around 60 currently used...

Ill probably be adding a 4024 and a 4093 somewhere this weekend...stay tuned!


lowpass filter test.mp3
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greetingcard lowpass.mp3
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
I did get a lot of stuff done on the breadboard. I tried this:
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/monomixerpage.html with the voltage divider and 9v battery. It worked but not as I hoped, not really amplifying the sound, even with changing values. I think it was underpowered, anyone build this with 5 or 9v?



As shown that circuit will give a gain of 1.95...
Feedback Resistor divided by Input Resistance (39,000 / 20,000 = 1.95)
Increase the feedback resistor if you want some more gain...

I'm enjoying watching your progress tjookum - thanks for your postings...

bruce

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
As shown that circuit will give a gain of 1.95...
Feedback Resistor divided by Input Resistance (39,000 / 20,000 = 1.95)
Increase the feedback resistor if you want some more gain...

I'm enjoying watching your progress tjookum - thanks for your postings...


Thanks, I think im just not going to use an amp for now. I need to get more familiarized with the cmos chips first. Im considering this as a endless game instead of a project I have to finish so ill get to them Very Happy . And im glad you like the thread.

Just turned the machine on, switched a few wires and some leds and got out some pretty nice stuff:
17-06-2010 down slow by Tropical Benny


[/right]


17-06-2010 down slow.mp3
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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm with RF on this. You are coming on in bounds man. I'm well impressed. Really enjoy your posts. Very Happy Very Happy
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm with RF on this. You are coming on in bounds man. I'm well impressed. Really enjoy your posts. Very Happy Very Happy


Nice, I guess I'll just keep doing it Smile . Mosc has been so kind to upgrade my upload space so I can keep the pictures coming thumright

Finished the order today, among a lot of other cool stuff I got some chips: C4029, C4014, C4030, C4066 and C4069. Ive seen a couple of good uses for these(bookmarking rules when embarking on long internetsearches) so I guess there will be a lot more updates still to come Very Happy .

Last few days I found myself entangled once again in datasheets, schematics and forumposts. It's really easy to stray off the path and end up with a headache Sad . I still have a lot of IC's waiting for a home on the board so today I regained some focus and added the 4024 and 4011. Really getting the hang of this type of build now. Socket, headers, read the datasheet, power, pulldown resistors, led resistors, leds, ground lines.

My header connectors come in rows of 20, I ended up with a lot of 4 hole pieces. I connected them in 4 rows of 4, very usefull for your gating leds and outputs. The scale of the whole unit is also really nice, current unit is just 14x8cm with already some nice sonic potential.

Up next:
Some more oscilators on a seperate board, I have a 556 and a 4093.
And ofcourse, a melodygen!

future stuff:
A 4029 binary/decade sequencer, very excited about this one. Has anyone tried this? datasheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/cd4029b , there is an interesting page about linking them together, a 8 or 16 step sequencer maybe? Wish I had bought more than 1 Razz

And ofcourse some more pictures:


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Getting less and less excited to show the belly of the beast, but it might be usefull to someone...
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used to be a fan of the CD4029 but there's 1 thing with it that really put a damper in my spirits for it - it advances it's count on the DOWNswing of the input clock. That throws it being in 'sync' with other things, out, by 90 degrees! Sad
Ken Stone had also used it in his Dividers (original and new one). At least his new one, has outputs at all 4 of the 90 degree divisions, to making syncing things with that divider a LOT easier. Still though - I'm not a fan of that chip, and I may have - quite a few of them. I'll have to check. As well - rethink, whether I'll use them ever again or not. If not - they'll be available for gifting. Smile

And again - BEAUTIFUL looking perfboard work! I can't wait to see more videos, especially with yourself using the LEDs as Droffset does! I LOVE that look! (Missing orange, blue and white LEDs though but - I'm an LED freak and would use purple and pink as well - if they'd release superbright versions of them. (And _STILL_ wanting, a 'brown' LED. Razz Laughing )
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I used to be a fan of the CD4029 but there's 1 thing with it that really put a damper in my spirits for it - it advances it's count on the DOWNswing of the input clock. That throws it being in 'sync' with other things, out, by 90 degrees! Sad


hmm, can a 40106 inverter be of any use here? I find myself quite confused with the whole sequencer bit of this build. I would like a seq. where I can plug in any output from anywhere into the board on a step and have a common output to go to the filter/mixer/amp board. Might have to think this one through a bit more...

Quote:
And again - BEAUTIFUL looking perfboard work! I can't wait to see more videos, especially with yourself using the LEDs as Droffset does! I LOVE that look! (Missing orange, blue and white LEDs though but - I'm an LED freak and would use purple and pink as well - if they'd release superbright versions of them. (And _STILL_ wanting, a 'brown' LED. Razz Laughing )


Yeah definately not regretting all the work it took to put in the leds, it's amazing how far a little visual feedback goes! Ive also been thinking about more colours but they are more expensive(where I get them) and I have to keep remembering myself this is still a experimental board.

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After an hour or so and using all 70 patchwires it finally bowed down and spit out some tunes Twisted Evil . These 2 recordings are just free running, tapped straight from the output of the melodygen and no tweaking at all.

Look mama, no hands!


19-06-2010 nobrainer.mp3
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
After an hour or so and using all 70 patchwires it finally bowed down and spit out some tunes Twisted Evil . These 2 recordings are just free running, tapped straight from the output of the melodygen and no tweaking at all.

Look mama, no hands!


As twisted and disjointed APPEARING as those 2 tracks sound - they could both use ripping drum tracks of insanity! Perhaps not intended but both of those one timers could almost be taken energenically violent! Surprised Twisted Evil

You sir, have inspired me to follow that path, in what I've described, once I get my studio rebuilt for it's compositional purposes. And that, shall hopefully be beginning any day now. Very Happy
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
These 2 recordings are just free running, tapped straight from the output of the melodygen and no tweaking at all.

Look mama, no hands!


I love it! Now get a second voice going - counterpoint to this one....
You are doing great stuff!

bruce

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum, I'm enjoying this thread! Just checked out the filter link you posted. Very simple. Your LED's... they are just going from each pin out to the (-) rail with a resistor between the IC pins and the LED? I need to get this 4051 I think... collected a few 4000 series chips but need more! I'm yet to begin Lunetta-ing. Your thread has been a big help, thanks!
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
As twisted and disjointed APPEARING as those 2 tracks sound - they could both use ripping drum tracks of insanity! Perhaps not intended but both of those one timers could almost be taken energenically violent! Surprised Twisted Evil


I agree, it's really missing a good solid beat. I saw what top top did with his simple drum lunetta, maybe I can make something similar.

Quote:
I love it! Now get a second voice going - counterpoint to this one....


Very Happy thanks. You mean like another similar setup and mix the 2 together? When my new parts arrive I can finally have my mixer Surprised and try some more complex patches.


Quote:
tjookum, I'm enjoying this thread! Just checked out the filter link you posted. Very simple. Your LED's... they are just going from each pin out to the (-) rail with a resistor between the IC pins and the LED? I need to get this 4051 I think... collected a few 4000 series chips but need more! I'm yet to begin Lunetta-ing. Your thread has been a big help, thanks!


Hi minus, nice to see you over here, I guess it was bound to happen. I hook the leds up like this:

OXRRLL-G
OXRR-LLG
OXRRLL-G
OXRR-LLG

O=IC
X=header
R=resistor
L=led
G=ground
Hope this makes sense to you, otherwise, use the foto's for reference. The leds have to be placed like this or they wont fit next to eachother. Sometimes you have to snip of a corner to make them fit.

I think 4040 and 4051 are a good place to start, check http://milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/

After having to disassemble the melodygenerator for the second time because my breadboard is tiny I thought I might as well add it to the board.
The underside is resembeling a nest of snakes but it all works and once again the led on the output is very usefull for visual feedback.


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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, makes sense! Thanks. The photos are great too. Particularly when you zoom in on them. I'm going to make a start tonight. I had Inventor's Quad osc breadboarded up a while ago but will redo this and get it soldered onto some stripboard. Might make use of the other two oscillators on the IC and have 6. Keep on posting! I'm learning heaps!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a quick question... Your 40106 oscillator seems to have a variety of caps there. I see 100n used a couple of times, and a red one of unknown value, and an electrolytic. I assume this is giving you slower oscillations. Inventor used 0.047uF caps on all 4 oscillators I think. I've mucked around a bit with cap values on the heterodyne space explorer found elsewhere in this Lunetta section of the forum... I was curious about the mystery values. I'm guessing you just experimented and decided what would be useful. Thanks.
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good question, as you can see on the photo it's 2x 0.1uF, the red one is 0.022uF and there is a 1uF electrolyth as an pseudo LFO. In hindsight I think 0.047uF will give you the best audio range, and even smaller for the clocks. Ive also thought about using header pins so they are switchable. The next 4xosc is probably going to be a lot higher values to act as clocks, it's easy to divide, a lot harder to make them higher.I think the 556 has a better frequency range so that might be usefull.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah! Now I'm starting to get it! It's what people have been saying all along: Once you start connecting things together, you'll understand it. YES!

I just breadboarded Inventors Quad Osc and the R2R ladder and TL074. I have hung LED's off the oscillator outputs via resistors and I'm playing around with the cap values a bit. I'm seeing the little LED's blinking at different rates! And the sounds are interesting too. Not sure what I did last time I constructed this circuit but this sounds way better! I see how these signals from the 40106 can be used to stimulate other ICs...

I'm about to hook up another little breadboard... a 4040. It too shall have little blinky lights! I'm seeing how this works more clearly now.

Don't worry about me, people... just been up until sunrise and infected with this Lunetta virus! Need to experiment with cap values on the oscillators I think. I'll report back before next sunrise. Thanks for the thread tjookum- it was just what the doctor ordered! I'm enjoying hitching a ride! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MY GOD!!!!! Life will never be the same again!!! And I really do apologize for filling this thread up with the rants of a madman.... I breadboarded up the 4040 and with a few minor hiccups I had this lovely array of spaceship LED's blinking away. Then I thought I'd hook up a 4011 NAND to this somehow. Anyway, to cut a long story short, My house is filled with this crazy composition I would have never expected! It's so great!!! I have an output of the 4040 going to the input of the NAND gate... the other input of the NAND is being fed by a 40106 oscillator then going to a resistor on the R2R ladder... BLISS!!!! I shall never listen to a CD again! Shocked

Haha!!! I'm probably going to make a jack to a panel type of Lunetta, but was thinking about the miniature Lunetta-ites among us. An L-Pod would be nice! You could carry it around in your pocket with a bunch of those mini wires.... plug in a few leads, put on your headphones, and take this shit with you on a bus or train or wherever.... There is something valuable about these little Lunettas I see.

Have to go... more IC's to breadboard. I'll post some sounds in the appropriate spot soon... soon as I can stop experimenting. I was amazed at how quickly you got your project flying along tjookum! Now I know what happened. You were inflicted with the Lunetta virus! What a powerful drug this is. Doesn't take long for you to get hooked! Think I've been body-snatched..... Twisted Evil
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing Welcome to the club, -minus-
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RF



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think he's got it....
Shocked

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hehehe, great to see you're getting into it Minus! I have no doubt you will pick it up in no-time. The lunetta virus is a pretty nice one to catch, you never know where you'll end up next Very Happy . Confused Dont forget to sleep though, I find it very relaxing Wink

I can definately recommend the perfboard with headers design, it's so simple and instead of finished modules you just have a bunch of blocks you can build with. And ofcourse you'll always have the option to connect the headers to a bananajack frontpanel. Im probably going to make a simplified frontpanel with some switches and knobs so friends can play it more intuitively(is that even a word?). A important goal for me is to make people want to play it, now most of them are just scared to touch anything Rolling Eyes

Quote:
And I really do apologize for filling this thread up with the rants of a madman....


No need for apology's here man, you're among friendly people Smile . I quite like the rants of madmen actually, but for the purpose of keeping the info clear and readible I would recommend starting you're own thread. I for one would love to see how you get along.

Maybe I'll post another update later today, been experimenting with an fx pedal and hopefully my new parts arrive in a few hours, Cool !

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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
start your own thread! /.../ I for one would love to see how you get along.


Ditto. I'm such a slow builder (doing Lunetta's as a side chain actually), I'm amazed at the speed you (and tjookum especially) are speeding up on the concept. Respect dudes!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Ditto. I'm such a slow builder (doing Lunetta's as a side chain actually), I'm amazed at the speed you (and tjookum especially) are speeding up on the concept. Respect dudes!


Thanks man! Im quite lucky to have a lot of spare time on my hands at the moment, this will change so Im making the best of it now Very Happy . It's just so much endless fun!

I borrowed a guitar fx pedal and amp. from my girlfriend and man it's great to finally hear those squarewaves with some nice effects. Confused I didn't have anymore cables so I used the mic on my laptop to record the sound in the room, too affraid I might lose it again. They are a little rough and you might here the occasional backgroundnoise but I quite like them.

The fx pedal made me think about what else I could drive, might need another visit to the second hand store and get me some more toys to mangle Twisted Evil


20-06-2010 hollowmind.mp3
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 Filename:  20-06-2010 hollowmind.mp3
 Filesize:  3.47 MB
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20-06-2010 LOUD noises.mp3
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WARNING, very loud near the end

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 Filename:  20-06-2010 LOUD noises.mp3
 Filesize:  809 KB
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20-06-2010 swing.mp3
 Description:
the cheesy drumbeat comes from the fx pedal, the bassy sound is the lunetta

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 Filename:  20-06-2010 swing.mp3
 Filesize:  2.68 MB
 Downloaded:  271 Time(s)


21-06-2010 Schreddin.mp3
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 Filename:  21-06-2010 Schreddin.mp3
 Filesize:  1.23 MB
 Downloaded:  275 Time(s)


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There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Surprised Swing, to me is definitely an Industrial Military tune, just WAITING to happen! Wholey schidt! Surprised
And Shreddin'! That almost gives the impression of having slipped the record player - WAY too much acid! Twisted Evil Great soundscapes in that one! Very Happy
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