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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Nord Modular G3
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

veta wrote:
... what i CAN'T excuse however is the lack of support for the existing G2. long-standing bugs that have never been addressed, etc... this is the exact same mistake they made with the original modular. to make the same error twice in a row is unbelievable and quite damaging to their reputation.
I assure you they can live with that and I mean 'they know it is not a nice thing to do'! But as you can see in the video it isn't a company where one or three developers doing nothing but these issues. Will they sell more Nord Modulars Classic fixing the bugs? Is the synth dysfunctional? Is it really damaging their reputation? I think that's a three times 'No!'

Maybe I can convince them to do it all when I promise not to write about them anymore... Wink

Wout
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ark



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Will they sell more Nord Modulars Classic fixing the bugs?

Actually, I have pointed out a bug to them that I think may cause problems with their current product line.

They have recently updated the Windows device drivers for their current product line so that Microsoft will auto-install them for you. However, they have not tested those drivers with the G2.

Unfortunately, both the G2 and the new driver use a file named C:\Windows\System32\drivers\ClaviaUSB.sys, and each driver uses a different version of that file. This means that the G2 driver and the new general-purpose driver cannot be installed on the same machine at the same time.

By implication, it means that you cannot use a Wave and a G2, or a Nord Piano and a G2, or any of their current products and a G2, on the same Windows computer--even if they are never both connected at the same time. I had entertained thoughts of buying a Wave (or its inevitable successor), but that's out of the question now.

It seems to me that Nord is going to have to do one of two things:

1) Make sure that the new driver works properly with the G2. (I have heard rumors that this is already the case, but don't want to be a guinea pig).

2) Change their new driver so that the ClaviaUSB.sys file acquires a new name, and allow this driver to coexist with the G2 driver. I think this will be difficult, because the G2 driver is supposed to work with the Wave also; which means that there would be two different drivers installed at the same time for the same device, and I imagine there will be problems there.

I suppose they could

3) Release an updated version of the G2 driver that works only with the G2 to avoid conflicts.

But whatever they do, they are currently in a situation in which owning a G2 is an impediment to buying any of Nord's current products. I hope they will see the wisdom in correcting that situation.
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paugui



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Getting a G2X ex-demo in a store (not for full price, I gave 1880 euros for it), totally got me into buying a Nord Modular original (used, as they were not being sold at the time).

I am quite happy with my G2X and G1 Expanded, they are definitely my favorite synths, and I wouldn't mind getting some more (I love them for effects).

This way I'd love to buy a Nord Modular G3.
I'd only love that they add sample oscillators to it.
Some more physical modeling would be great too, as well as more filter types (in a similar way to what the Ion has) and effects.
It would also be great that all the G1 and G2 modules were available too, so that it could sound as a G1 or a G2 and as a G3 as well.
And being able to convert the programs from the G1 and G2 would be even better Wink
Some more extras on an hardware level would be great too, like an X-Y pad and more pages on the interface would be great (for the sequencer it would be great to have 16 knobs in a row), as well as sysex support for controlling old synths...

Probably with all this I'd be quite tempted in buying another one now (better next year... already have some other things scheduled until the end of this year Razz).
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@Wout: Thanks for the links, very interesting and informative.

My attitude and suggestion to all G2 users: If you want increase the chance of seeing a G3 sometime in the future, stop venting any further negativity towards Clavia pertaining the G2. Sure, it's a pity it has been discontinued. But hey -I've seen many synths with far shorter life cycles. Sure, there are still some bugs -although I consider their impact on the overall performance and useability marginal. I haven't seen any synth without bugs these days anyway, just browse the forums and see for yourself.
On the bottom line, the G2 is still is an incredible instrument without competition. Imho, its whole concept borders on sheer genius, and for me personally it is the best digital synthesizer ever made. So let's stop bickering and instead keep up a positive and supportive stance towards Clavia. Instead of sneering at the Stage and Organ lines (we synth snobs Laughing), we should be glad that these are going so well, as this increases the chances that Clavia might find resources for a niche product like a modular synth again. Surviving in the hardware market without compromising quality is damn hard these days, and Clavia refrains from ugly but increasingly popular cost-cutting design practices like external wall warts and cheapo hardware on all their products. (Have you noticed that it is getting more and more difficult to buy truly well made synth hardware these days?) So let's stay more up-beat and wish them all the best. I, for one, do.

cheers,
t
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iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
@Wout: Thanks for the links, very interesting and informative.

My attitude and suggestion to all G2 users: If you want increase the chance of seeing a G3 sometime in the future, stop venting any further negativity towards Clavia pertaining the G2. Sure, it's a pity it has been discontinued. But hey -I've seen many synths with far shorter life cycles. Sure, there are still some bugs -although I consider their impact on the overall performance and useability marginal. I haven't seen any synth without bugs these days anyway, just browse the forums and see for yourself.
On the bottom line, the G2 is still is an incredible instrument without competition. Imho, its whole concept borders on sheer genius, and for me personally it is the best digital synthesizer ever made. So let's stop bickering and instead keep up a positive and supportive stance towards Clavia. Instead of sneering at the Stage and Organ lines (we synth snobs Laughing), we should be glad that these are going so well, as this increases the chances that Clavia might find resources for a niche product like a modular synth again. Surviving in the hardware market without compromising quality is damn hard these days, and Clavia refrains from ugly but increasingly popular cost-cutting design practices like external wall warts and cheapo hardware on all their products. (Have you noticed that it is getting more and more difficult to buy truly well made synth hardware these days?) So let's stay more up-beat and wish them all the best. I, for one, do.

cheers,
t


Well said. Defo best digi synth ever and by a margin at that. Sure it's not perfect and can't do everything but it comes pretty close and it does the vast majority of it very well.

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paugui



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
tim wrote:
@Wout: Thanks for the links, very interesting and informative.

My attitude and suggestion to all G2 users: If you want increase the chance of seeing a G3 sometime in the future, stop venting any further negativity towards Clavia pertaining the G2. Sure, it's a pity it has been discontinued. But hey -I've seen many synths with far shorter life cycles. Sure, there are still some bugs -although I consider their impact on the overall performance and useability marginal. I haven't seen any synth without bugs these days anyway, just browse the forums and see for yourself.
On the bottom line, the G2 is still is an incredible instrument without competition. Imho, its whole concept borders on sheer genius, and for me personally it is the best digital synthesizer ever made. So let's stop bickering and instead keep up a positive and supportive stance towards Clavia. Instead of sneering at the Stage and Organ lines (we synth snobs Laughing), we should be glad that these are going so well, as this increases the chances that Clavia might find resources for a niche product like a modular synth again. Surviving in the hardware market without compromising quality is damn hard these days, and Clavia refrains from ugly but increasingly popular cost-cutting design practices like external wall warts and cheapo hardware on all their products. (Have you noticed that it is getting more and more difficult to buy truly well made synth hardware these days?) So let's stay more up-beat and wish them all the best. I, for one, do.

cheers,
t


Well said. Defo best digi synth ever and by a margin at that. Sure it's not perfect and can't do everything but it comes pretty close and it does the vast majority of it very well.



I totally agree.

I also think the G1 and G2 are both amazing as effects processors.

I don't have any high-end effects processor, but the way you can configure the Nords and still use them to sequence and play some synth sounds all at the same time is just amazing.

My G1 and G2X are definitely my favorite machines.
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Jack_Hertz



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You only have to look at all the BIG powerful synths made since 2000 to see they all have fallen by the wayside. The G2 and Korg's Oasys have the same problem. The complexity drives up the cost that diminishes the number of people who either don't have the money or don't want to think too much to sound good.

Just look at the current market. Everything is small, simple and cheap. The Monotron is not $60 because there's an exploding market for people who want macro level control over their synths. We are a select few who want to get under the hood. Even a lot of our ilk are moving towards much of the small, simple, cheap boxes and modules that can be used incrementally together. That's the best of both worlds for maker and consumer as it appeals to noobs and experts alike.

Even if you set the economics aside. We are quite literally on the cusp of ubiquitous access to PCs with 4+ processors and true utilization of 64-bit bandwidth. It is a huge risk to build something in hardware now that we're virtually minutes away from being able to easily surpass it in software. The speed of development, ease of distribution and maintenance at an application level is simply too hard to resist for any company today. I am afraid anything other than hardware that is build purely to emulate classic / retro analog stuff, like pianos and organs, are off the drawing board for good.

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jack Hertz wrote:
I am afraid anything other than hardware that is build purely to emulate classic / retro analog stuff, like pianos and organs, are off the drawing board for good.


Hmm, I don't agree. Perhaps current economics or whatever prevent these kinds of ventures presently, but personally I feel that experimental control surfaces is something we'll see more of in the future, with or without software running on an attached computer.

Now the G2, curiously, occupies two worlds. It is an ingenious piece of software: the stuff you work with in the editor, enabling a red box with nothing but a power button and some jacks to be a wonderful piece of gear. It's also a great general control surface if you have a keyboard version.

Personally I'm waiting for someone other than Clavia to make a softsynth that imitates the G2's editor and synth engine, and also improve upon it. Seeing all the software that's being made everywhere I don't feel that this is too much to ask.

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G2Psy



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jack Hertz wrote:
I am afraid anything other than hardware that is build purely to emulate classic / retro analog stuff, like pianos and organs, are off the drawing board for good.


If you include hardware built to emulate retro analog monosynths then I totally agree with you. I am getting the most satisfaction at the moment with a Voyager and using the DAW as a 16 track tape deck. I love touching the Voyager. I can't say that about the G2 engine Smile You probably didn't mean to include actual analog synths, but I agree that designing and manufacturing something new in hardware which doesn't just copy classic designs is risky.

I think the hardware buying crowd are very picky now, much less so than in the '90s when I (oops, they) would buy anything with new sounds. Life cycle of devices is more important now because we have seen models come and go. Software hasn't gone away and it continues to improve. Reliablility of computers is improving. Hardware not software is now the gear which is buggy, doesn't get fixed and obsoletes sooner. A big risk indeed to make a new hardware synth anything.
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realtrance



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I actually think Jack is quite right. As much as I like the immediacy of the G1/G2's interface, and think the options provided on both are near-infinite, at a time when, say, a Native Instruments Komplete owner can get an upgrade with 30GB of new samples for $230 US, or Ableton Live 8 with MaxforLive.... it's tough to justify R&D and manufacturing investment in making yet another specialty hardware synth in what at best was a very small market during good economic times.

In bad economic times, as the world may well have for the next decade..... it's even more difficult to make an argument in favor of selling 50 $3,000 specialty synths.

Saddens me, but it's true.
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buzzr



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HaHa!! skeptics! Just because you get 30 GB of samples makes Reaktor a better instrument?

The G2 performs like a REAL MODULAR SYNTH. Reaktor only mimics the potential.

I have both and the G2 is king.

Again, the economy has nothing to do with it. The hardware market is flourishing despite the dismal economy.
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jonnyj



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I'll jump in a little and ask first where is the hardware market flourishing? I guess if you look at Moog and their product that continues to grow but again it's retro analog but done right for sure. But they also have returned buying a high quality performance synth back to the regions of almost unreachable Little Phatty not included.

Manufacturers are scrambling and hoping to be sure we will keep buying. The in your face majors are scrambling too ie. Korg, Roland, and Yamaha. Korg continues to micro size it's hardware and outsourcing to cheaper labor with everyone else. Roland is sorta still in line but reinventing old new tech. Yamaha without the Motif what other synth are they doing that's cutting edge? For sure smaller manufacturers are turning out great new analog synths and modules, effects, sequencer. All really cool and high quality but again it's still retro analog and it's ilk. Please don't get me wrong, but there is no cutting edge hardware being created at the moment that is opening a new path. I can be proven wrong in heartbeat for sure, but looking around I see no modern ground breakers like the DX7, Waldorf Wave, D50, or any other synth that brought us new ground. Given the risk companies cannot do it right now so analog retro nostalgia is usually a sure bet that will set along with DAW software and VSTi's etc. One cannot know for sure without being in the business of selling hardware and software, but I am just saying what I am seeing right now.

I won't pretend to be an expert. I am one of the Korg OASYS investors who shot their wad on an open platform and for a large part am very happy with it and Korg came through with 90% of what they said they'd do with it and definitely fixed all bugs before killing the project. Most of us want them to open the platform for more synths to 3rd parties but it will probably never happen without them re-opening it someday which could happen given what they did with the Legacy soft synths. I bring the OASYS up as an example, though extreme maybe, of a large investment for both manufacturer and player. It is hard to not think that perhaps the end user carried more of the investment burden. Don't know for sure without insider knowledge. For now from my perspective the OASYS represented the last of a kind for this type of workstation but there have been others churned out since and probably more to come from the makers. The OASYS offered a culmination of Korg's years of ways of making their synths climaxed in a new kind of PC based hardware synth but with familiar interfacing. The cutting edge part to me was the KARMA 2.0 engine and the EXI's synths Korg's proprietary VSTi technology which can also be seen in their Legacy synths but with Linux as chief player in the box.

More to discuss I'm sure....let the fray begin..

-JonnyJ
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buzzr



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jonnyj wrote:


Please don't get me wrong, but there is no cutting edge hardware being created at the moment that is opening a new path.
-JonnyJ


I'm sorry, which one of the synths you mentioned is a modular synth?

These companies are making fantastic cutting edge MODULAR synths today, that expand synthesizers to new highs, and doing quite well:

BUCHLA
DOEPFER
MAKE NOISE
BUGBRAND
ANALOG SYSTEMS
THE HARVESTMAN
METASONIX
SYNTHWERKS
TIP TOP AUDIO
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jonnyj



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm sorry, which one of the synths you mentioned is a modular synth?


All true. No question, but again it's still analog and some might call it retro. No doubt you can make cutting edge music and effects with all of them. I'm talking something completely new that we don't have. And won't see without the leap of faith makers and players will be willing to risk again.

Maybe I am misreading the spectrum of this post. I was thinking it moved beyond just cutting edge modular synths. I jumped into this fray with my thoughts. Cheers.
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abstraktor



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my two cents folks...
I would really like to get a hold of a G2 to compliment both my analogue and DAW setups, but the inflated used prices have pushed it to the bottom of my "wants" list. I think there is a gap in the market for its approach (virtual modular with hardware front end), but with the rise of touchscreen device apps based on pd or Max/Msp (Jasuto pro, Reactable, for example), I dont think we'll see another G2 type instrument being made in the near future, or indeed perhaps ever again. Maybe the G2 has joined the ranks of "past classics" - A6, OB2, 2600 etc. Sad
just a thought.....
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Look guys, if you really don't want your G2, then give it to me! Wink Very Happy

I've always wanted a G2, but could never justify the asking price, because my mortgage and family comes first (well according to wifey anyway! Rolling Eyes Laughing ). I've got a lovely Clavia Micromodular, but "oh lord won't you buy me a Nord Modular (G2)", as that stupid song goes.......

PS, Jonnyj, wasn't it Tristram Cary who coined the phrase "There is nothing as out-of-date as a new sound"? If you are fearful that there a no "new sounds", write a new melody instead! Idea Very Happy

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abstraktor



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Look guys, if you really don't want your G2, then give it to me! Wink Very Happy



em...or me! Laughing
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, just like this here guitar. They don't make this kind anymore! Therefore it's useless... Wink Laughing
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funnily enough, I've been listening to Revolver by The Beatles all week. Brilliant album. First to use ADT too! I listen to it and think it's so ahead of its time. 1966 you know! Very Happy
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Abstract Data Type?
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loydb



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Automated Dipthong Truncation.

I thought everyone knew that.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"Automatic Double Tracking"

You, Andy, should know better! Laughing

arrow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_double_tracking

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abstraktor



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

attention deficit troll? Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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ThreeFingersOfLove



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be very very interested in a G3. too much coffee

Don't care about pianos, organs and the other things they make now. Sorry.
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G2DREAM



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'd be very very interested in a G3. too much coffee

Don't care about pianos, organs and the other things they make now. Sorry.


I agree...totally! I am definitely a mad modular G1(micro) - G2(engine) user!
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