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 Forum index » electro-music.com » electro-music festivals
Video Visuals Collaboration with movement/dance at EM2012
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Tantroniq



Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Video Visuals Collaboration with movement/dance at EM2012 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello- I'd like to post this question to the people who are doing visuals at EM2012. I have been wanting to work with live video image manipulation using, as one possibility, a shadow dance image (think itunes commercial, only different dance style).

My influences are modern dance, martial arts, and classical movement, and all improvised to different music. I started doing this just as exercise and began to develop a movement language to use in my own future video projects. I figured EM2012 might be a good place to begin to jam ideas for this.

I once saw a show in which an image of a dancer that was not really all that interesting was put through various kinds of obvious spectral filters and some mirroring, and the end result looked pretty cool. I thought: what if someone actually bothered to create movement that would be designed just for such a mirror filter for more visual impact? And that started my interest in this whole notion. The key would be movement constrained within the image boundary, which is what I have been working on.

Not sure what would be needed besides some way of creating a crisp shadow (White screen/backlight) and a camera trained on that one spot, and this would feed into whatever program people are using. Is there a way to get a black and white image incorporated as a layer to allow other things to be superimposed?

Thoughts/ideas appreciated. I have no equipment I can bring to help with this except myself and maybe a pipe and drape and white fabric if I can get my hands on the right kind.

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newdendrite



Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 22
Location: atlanta, ga

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been interested in working with dance and video for some time but haven't found a good way to do it. The concept you describe is not easy to do technically with conventional VJ software. After thinking about it for awhile, it occurs to me that some interesting things along these lines might be done in max/msp/jitter. I'll try a couple of concepts locally and see how they turn out. If they work, we could take a look at them at em2012.

I'll be flying to em2012 this year, so I won't be able to bring extra gear this year. That means we'll have to work with what is available on site.

Best regards,
Michael O'Bannon
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Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 1639
Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 35

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the music + dance compositions at NIME 2012 had the dancer in white body paint + white underwear against an open space with what I assume was a black, absorptive background in the distance, let's say a black velvet curtain for argument's sake. There were some very far out projections of various sorts, geometrics and other things, that reflected off of the dancer while not showing up in the background. Kind of a green screen approach, except that the background was black and absorptive, and the dancer was very white and therefore served as the "screen." I assume that the projection was pretty well concentrated in the center area where the dancer moved; all you could see was a human form with the projected abstract "skin" flashing in the dark, and quite often you couldn't particularly tell that it was a human. (Good dancer.) As long as the dancer stays in the focal plane, this wouldn't be too demanding on technology. You'd have to have a *really* dark room, not to spoil the effect.
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newdendrite



Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 22
Location: atlanta, ga

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With VJ mixing software, the general problem is how to avoid seeing the projection and creating a feedback loop based on that content. The arrangement of the white dancer against a black background might allow the projections to be removed with extreme monochrome filtering. It depends on the capabilities of the effects and filters available in the specific software being used, but I'd have to see it work to believe it.

A tool like ma/jitter, on the other hand, would allow you to remove the projection with a bit of delay and some matrix algebra.

Best regards,
Michael
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Tantroniq



Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes projections onto a white clad dancer is another idea that I have seen done.

However my suggestion, I believe, eliminates the problem of the white on black, replacing it, however, with black on white.

I guess if something was being rear projected and the dancer is between the screen and the projection which is then viewed from the other side, then you would get a cut out effect?

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newdendrite



Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 22
Location: atlanta, ga

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe the reason the white dancer version works is that video is actually being projected onto the black background. The audience doesn't see it because the black material doesn't reflect the projected image. When dealing with the camera input, the software can simply wash out the detail of the projected image on the dancer's body by blurring the image then resharpening, or perhaps by edge detection. This produces a stable representation of the body image internally to use for control.

Best regards,
Michael
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newdendrite



Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 22
Location: atlanta, ga

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tanya,

Just to make sure we're talking about the same basic effect, would you like the dancer to remain an all-black form and the images to be projected on the remainder of the screen? Or were you thinking of projecting images inside the bounds of the dancer's body?

Best regards,
Michael
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JEM



Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Posts: 76
Location: Dover Plains, NY

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Movement and Dance Collaboration
Subject description: Another Idea
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This is a very interesting project. I would very much like to see how it works out and would like to offer my assistance.
If the movements are going to be videotaped and processed later on in a studio environment, it would be nice to use the end product as background material for a live performance.

My idea was to play around with the brightness and the color saturation of the images until you only see moving shapes with little or no detail whatsoever. Afterwards, the images can be replicated in multi-colored hues and superimposed on top of each other to accentuate the movement. It would work very well with beat-oriented music.

Just my two cents.

JEM
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Tantroniq



Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Once again JEM you weirdly read my mind.

Michael, I am actually open to all interesting possibilities. We can discuss at the conference. I know nothing about readily available technology in this area but want to explore both live and pre-recorded movement applications....

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