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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
Syncing LFO to external MIDI clock?
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diskonext



Joined: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 307
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:10 am    Post subject: Syncing LFO to external MIDI clock? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey all,

I've been looking into options to sync my LFO's to an external MIDI clock.

Seeing the global MIDI info doesn't have a Slv output, and the only way I found of building a zero-crossings detector (which could detect Hz from incoming clock pulses) involved using a compressor (13% DSP)... how to go about this?

I tried resetting the Internal Clock (which does have a Slv output) by means of the external clock, but that didn't seem to work.

Another option would be to use the Sync output to reset the LFO and have the LFO tuned to approximately the right frequency, but this is not the kind of control I want to have.
The kind of control I'm looking for has to auto-tune the LFO to the approximate frequency/BPM of the incoming MIDI clock, or fractions thereof, naturally.

Any ideas, or patches where this is used?

Thanks!

-diskonext

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diskonext



Joined: Aug 26, 2004
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been thinking...

You can build your own counters, using SnH modules. If so, you could conceivably use some timed signal (using a logic delay) to reset and read out this counter, dividing by the proper amount to get the BPM/hz of the incoming MIDI clock pulses... right?

Anyone has something like that lying around? It might make for a slightly more efficient zero-crossings detector/counter/pitch-tracker for sub-audio freqs.

-diskonext (who's not close to any form of editor at the moment)

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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There have been a few very clever NM1 paches that enable you to apply midi sync to the LFOs. I think the best one is called midilfosync.pch by Ico Doornekamp. It should be in the NM1 patch archives. If not, let me know & I'll post it here (I don't want to send a duplicate to the archive).
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diskonext



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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great!

Thanks a lot, Dave!

I actually managed to come quite close to a working solution yesterday, but this involved a lot more modules than Ico's Wink

Will check it out this evening. Thanks again!

BTW, how do you guys go about checking the output of your logic structures? I hooked up a software oscilloscope to check on the output of the SnH modules, which helped a lot.

Doing math on the Modular is hard, btw. Clavia units are a cool idea, but they mess with your head, as well Wink

-diskonext

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davep



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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diskonext wrote:
Great!



BTW, how do you guys go about checking the output of your logic structures? I hooked up a software oscilloscope to check on the output of the SnH modules, which helped a lot.

Doing math on the Modular is hard, btw. Clavia units are a cool idea, but they mess with your head, as well Wink

-diskonext


I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but on the NM1 you can use Envelope Generators as a visual indicator by patching the logic to the EG and watching the "LED" in the EG module. Of course, the G2 now has lots of modules with level/signal indicators, like the mixers.

BTW - be sure to lower your voice count to 1 when trying to check stuff like this or it gets very confusing.

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diskonext



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes,

that's a good idea as well. I was looking more into gradual outputs, however. But could use the Poly Area In for that one, couldn't I?

-diskonext (who still has to test that patch)

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davep



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diskonext wrote:
Yes,

that's a good idea as well. I was looking more into gradual outputs, however. But could use the Poly Area In for that one, couldn't I?

-diskonext (who still has to test that patch)


Hmm. I don't think I understand. Logic signals are always +64 (or zero) so what kind of gradual output do you mean? When you connect multiple logic signals to AND modules, OR modules, etc., you still just get +64 or zero. Are you combining logic signals in a mixer or something?

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diskonext



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well,

I was referring to logic as anything not audio-related. Bit of a confounding way of expressing myself there. Control signals, basically.

-diskonext (who still hasn't found the time to test that patch - busy, busy, busy)

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davep



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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diskonext wrote:
Well,

I was referring to logic as anything not audio-related. Bit of a confounding way of expressing myself there. Control signals, basically.

-diskonext (who still hasn't found the time to test that patch - busy, busy, busy)


Ah, got it. For checking the behavior of control signals, try this - mute the main output and drag another output module and an extra osc into the patch (don't forget to reduce the voice count to one!). Now patch the extra osc signal to the extra output module and you'll hear a constant drone from the osc. Now, try connecting the various control signals that you want to check to the pitch input of the osc. TaDa! The osc pitch will clearly reveal what the control signals are doing.

BTW, I often use a related trick of muting the main outs and adding a spare output module to the patch, and connecting various points of the audio signal chain to this extra out as a sort of stethescope. Checking the signal before the filters, etc, can help reveal what's causing some annoying artifact in the patch. Again, if you try this trick, reduce the voice count to one or you'll just get a huge wall of sound blasting away at full volume.

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diskonext



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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
Now, try connecting the various control signals that you want to check to the pitch input of the osc. TaDa! The osc pitch will clearly reveal what the control signals are doing.

Funny, that actually was my method as well. Usually on the oscilloscope, though, too much siney-noise sweeps get on my nerves after a while.

davep wrote:
BTW, I often use a related trick of muting the main outs and adding a spare output module to the patch, and connecting various points of the audio signal chain to this extra out as a sort of stethescope.

Nice one, as well!

On a related note, anyone know of freeware/cheap oscilloscope's that actually support ASIO drivers?

-diskonext

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Erm, perhaps I´m missing some possible aplication, but cheapest to me seems taking a controll seq., drawing in a sine or saw, using a smooth on that and midi clocking it. That would mess up saws but a little negative edge detector and a crossfader over both the seq and the smooth with a few logic thingies would fix that. A second sequencer and a compare value before the reset of your "lfo" will give you modulatable phase.

Dirty? For sure, but also cheap and easy.

Alternately; if you use a sequencer you could just make a clip with a midi lfo drawn in, send that to a constant and smooth that a little, then make the clip loop. It´s a bit "ableton-ish" but it´s also even cheaper and you´ll be tight down to midi resolustion (+/- jitter) of the bpm instantly after the change; that´s worth something too....

(and yes; I prefer canvas shirts over silk ones, diesel over gas :¬) )

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diskonext



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Built in sequencer should do the trick, indeed. Nice one.

The Live-style LFO is a sweet solution as well, especially since I'm usually doing everything with Live, it's just that I would also like to be able to do stuff without Live...

-diskonext

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