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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
Strange output of patt gen + key quantizer?
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 88
Location: london uk
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:04 am    Post subject: Strange output of patt gen + key quantizer? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The problem is simple (or I thought it was). I am trying to 'read' the output of a pattern generator - key quantizer combination so that I can put these values into sequencers on the G2. I have to do this because Clavia changed the pattern generator on the G2 and I need to get all my old melodies transferred. I use this combo in a lot of my tracks so I wanted to build a generic patch that would show me the note values as I stepped through the sequence.
Firstly, and this totally baffles me, it looks like the output of the key quantizer does not seem to be rounded to the nearest note value but seems to be fractional. Whether I use compare-to-level modules or a keyboard splitter - it seems to be two notes at the same time (such as E and F) indicating that it lies somewhere inbetween the exact values. The only way I can detect an exact note is to insert an additional note quantizer after the key quantizer. I thought the key quantizer should restrict the output to exact note values - so F4 would be value of 1 etc. This seems to be happening however I set the key quantizer. Why is the control signal not quantized exactly? And how do the oscillators react to such a fractional signal - surely they would be slightly out of tune?
Have I misunderstood perhaps the way such control signals work?
Secondly, if anyone knows of such a patch - please point me in the right direction, I have been working on this for days ands still canl't get anything to work - generally the Nord Classic tells me that I have run out of memory (too many modules perhaps?)
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20615
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you set the voice count to 1 ?

Jan.
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 88
Location: london uk
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes voice count of 1 with one slot only active.
I just tried it with the keyboard input module.
If I connect this directly to a keboard split module set to C4-C4 and play C4 on the kbd, the module 'fires off' (sends a gate to the evenlope gen I use for visual confirmation). If however I take this same keyboard note signal and run it through a key quantizer set to quantize to the notes C D F A, and with any range but let's say +-64, the keyboard splitter now only 'fires' if I set it's detection range to B3-C4 (AND IT MUST BE BOTH, it will not work if I drop both upper and lower to B3). It seems to be fractional!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not sure I understand, you play a patch on the Classic and you record it on the G2 ?

Could you post some/an example patche/s maybe ?

Jan.
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
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G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, there's no G2 involved here, my second posting was simpler than that. Have a look at the attached patch. If you play C4 on the keyboard, the first keyboard split module, that is directly connected to the kbd input, passes the gate through - BUT the one where the signal goes through the key quantizer first does not, even stranger though, the last keyboard splitter that is now set to detect notes between B3 and C4 does detect it!


oddDetect.pch
 Description:

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 Filename:  oddDetect.pch
 Filesize:  979 Bytes
 Downloaded:  67 Time(s)


oddDetect.pch
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  oddDetect.pch
 Filesize:  979 Bytes
 Downloaded:  73 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wanted to give some follow-up on this, looking at the patches it's not obvious to me as to what the prolem is and so it needs some expermintation.

Unfortunately I don't have the NM Classic hooked up at the moment & am pretty busy sawing & drilling & soldering & painting & stuff for a noodle box thingy.

Sorry for that, but at least for a short while this thread is near the top of http://electro-music.com/forum/search.php?search_id=newposts again :-)

Jan.
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varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill,

Indeed, it appears that the KeyQuant module does not always output an exact integer control (note) value! The attached patch "notedetect2" is setup so that the KeyQuant module has all notes activated and a range of +64 to -64 which should result in the output of the module being an exact integer value of the Constant module. The pitch of the two OscB modules should track each other exactly, but the one connected to the KeyQuant module appears to be slighly flat in pitch when the Constant module is set to most values between -64 and 0.

Back to your original problem - to determine the output values of a PatternGen/KeyQuant combo, I would suggest using something similar to the attached patch "notedetect". Two OscB modules are used, one connected to the KeyQuant, the other connected to a Constant module. Setting the Constant module so that both OscBs are at the same pitch will reveal the output value of the KeyQuant.


notedetect2.pch
 Description:
Reveals the fractional (non-integer) output bug of the KeyQuant module.

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 Filename:  notedetect2.pch
 Filesize:  917 Bytes
 Downloaded:  89 Time(s)


notedetect.pch
 Description:
Can be used to reveal the output values of a PattGen/KeyQuant combo.

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 Filename:  notedetect.pch
 Filesize:  1.27 KB
 Downloaded:  82 Time(s)


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hyperstationjr



Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didn't pick up on if you wanted to replace the G1 or just do similar things with the G2 while keeping a G1 around, but couldn't you set the output of your Pattern Gen. and Key Quant. to the G1's outputs, send that to the G2's in's, and in effect, send controller messages between the machines?

I'm not sure if this would work, but I've done it within the G2, so I don't see why it wouldn't. However, I'm not sure if this would solve your problem the way you'd like...

By the way, new to the board... really excited about the resources on this site...

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Clavia Nord Modular G1 Key* (considering to sell/trade)
Clavia Nord Modular G2 Engine.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20615
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 148
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome hyperstationjr !

Ypu're off for a good start having the post count on three already.

hyperstationjr wrote:
but couldn't you set the output of your Pattern Gen. and Key Quant. to the G1's outputs, send that to the G2's in's, and in effect, send controller messages between the machines?


There is DC blocking on the outputs of the NM and probably as well on hte inputs of the G2. This is a problem for slow signals to pass through.

You could use the signals to AM modulate some tone though and then use an envelope follower to decode it in the G2.

But that's pretty much theory I guess, you'll want your control signals in your patch generally speaking, ehm, I would.

Jan.
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Might be a good use for the pitch track module in the G2.

G1 pattern -> sine osc -> g2 in -> pitch track -> midi note send -> PC sequencer

This combination should round any notes to integers as well.
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