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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
perhaps a little bit help?
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StrictKopf



Joined: Feb 17, 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Germany
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: perhaps a little bit help?
Subject description: how to start with my first lunetta / my first synth in all / need the right impulse , encouragement
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Herllo....
I am relative new here and think, i am right in this subforum. I am 57 , frsh still in heart and mind and have a dream since my youth: a patchable synth.
I am a pensioner already because of health reasons andso I have nearly no money left. That, what I found out meanwhile, is, that my only chance for a patchable synth is to build a lunetta. And this is also very fitting to my ideas. of how my synth should be. I like the idea of the 0series using for a synth.
I have bought meanwhile the LooneyBoard from bbob / fluxmonkey, and i will in eaach cases try my luck with it. But in moment I have the feeling, that it is not very usefull for a beginner - also remembering, that i am not the great hero in soldering. The board is very small and narrow , i fear.
Does someone have a better idea , than to start with this looneyboard, or does perhaps someone have a more usefull pcb for sale ?
Or does someone have a tipp, how to start my lunetta building...all that links ( Intro into lunetta, ... and so on) I have visited, and they are helpfull, but me bares the impulse to start realy.
I will be thankfull for any tipp and help...
Hoping for answers --- regards:
RalfO
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome

I think that Looney Board is a good way to start. You will learn a lot pretty fast.

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g.gabba



Joined: Nov 29, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Ralf,

Phobos is sharing his amazing work with us,
as for a lunetta/digital starting point may u consider his NANDulator:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-409769.html

regarding the costs of SDIY they can be high if you are going for design with many different values and components, you can keep the costs low by buying fewer values but in bulk and use simple designs or make them simpler on ur own.
I would say you can build a nice modular at the same cost level as a Lunetta if you dont go for fancy frontpanels and so on.

so far for this time
viele grüße
Gabbagabi
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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your tipps...hope for more

as i've said: i will try it with the LooneyBoard in all cases

and to that modular idea: could you become a little bit more concrete? What should I buy and from whom? What would i need absolutely and what could i leave ? And I understood right: ready assembled circuits ? Aat the same costs as a lunetta ?---for that idea I would need a little more help Wink
I am waiting for suggestions... Shocked Embarassed
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Smile
of course not ready assembled,
cheap is only ur own workforce,

may it is not a bad idea to start with some pre-fabricated and good documented circuits and collect some experience before u enter next levels

i was short before to write a long post about what i have wished somebody had told me as i have started this madness, but i did not cos everybody is different and may also need to make his own mistakes and find his own style over the time.

examples for easy-non-lunetta circuits are the circuits from nicolas
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-34550.html

i will leave it here cos it is the Lunetta forum Smile

feel free to drop me a PM

cheers,
gabbagabi
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm where to start, I mean where do I start with telling you where to start.
oh, before I forget:
welcome party!

ok let me just quote and comment, that usually seems to work.
RalfO wrote:
I am relative new here and think, i am right in this subforum. I am 57 , frsh still in heart and mind and have a dream since my youth: a patchable synth.

You are in the right subforum if you want to have some fun with relatively cheap and simple to make circuits that are often not
very melodic in the conventional sense (but they can be) but might surprise you in there capabilities. And you WILL have your
patchable synth! Very Happy

Quote:
I am a pensioner already because of health reasons andso I have nearly no money left. That, what I found out meanwhile, is, that my only chance for a patchable synth is to build a lunetta. And this is also very fitting to my ideas. of how my synth should be. I like the idea of the 0series using for a synth.

Building a synth doesn't have to be expensive (even a more sophisticated analog one). Usually the components are actually very
cheap, it's things like pots, knobs, switches, connectors, cables and of course a decent powersupply that add up and you could of
course also spend a fortune on fancy panels as some folks do. But you can keep it simple, a perfect example is the Modular that
Chris Bergstrom is bullding. You can find a thread about it here and some more information on his own site here.
However, I do believe that lunettas are a great starting point.

I am not sure what you mean with the 0series, is that using the header pins and dupont connectors ? They work but can be a bit of
a hassle once you start patching as they are so small.


Quote:
I have bought meanwhile the LooneyBoard from bbob / fluxmonkey, and i will in eaach cases try my luck with it. But in moment I have the feeling, that it is not very usefull for a beginner - also remembering, that i am not the great hero in soldering. The board is very small and narrow , i fear.
Does someone have a better idea , than to start with this looneyboard, or does perhaps someone have a more usefull pcb for sale ?

I am not sure if I've seen the looneyboard before, might have had a glance at it at one point. It does look to be a very nice board with
some basic lunetta circuits which you can expand on with circuits you make later on. The layout doesn't seem to be very dense either
which would make soldering a bit difficult. Of course that's coming from someone who has had many years of soldering experience.
Soldering isn't very difficult though, as long as you stay away form the surface mount stuff, but you need a couple of things:
1: a good soldering iron. It doesn't have to be a weller but stay away from the very cheap ones. You might be able to solder some
copper wires together with it and maybe even manage to solder some components but I personally never had any good experience
with them. I use a AOYUE 936 myself (similar to the hakko) which works fine and there are probaly some cheaper ones available that
would work well too.
2: good solder. Having some quality solder makes all the difference between a nice solder joint or a messy blob that falls off when you
look at it the wrong way. As with the soldering iron stay away from the very cheap stuff. I am using Stannol S-Sn60Pb39Cu1 with 3.5%
flux myself and it is great. Definitely not the cheapest though but it has never failed me. I also got a roll of thinner solder for SMD use
but it only has 1% flux (and no copper) and that makes quite a difference, it works but doesn't flow very well.
3: practise. kits can be great for practise but you might want to start with some very cheap ones which you can find on ebay and similar
sites (you can get some for $0,99 or less incl shipping). They might not be the most interesting circuits but it gives you someting to practise
with, although not all the boards are very easy to solder. A better idea might be to get a piece of perfboard and a bag of resistors and just
start practising, it's a lot less fun of course as you won't have a nice circuit at the end. Well, maybe you could make some kind of LED sign,
that's good practise. If you make a sign with text and make seperate connections for the letters you could make a simple controller later to
do some fancy flashing, you could even connect it to your lunetta.

btw g.gabba mentioned my NANDulator which is very simple and can be a lot of fun to play with it. I do sell kits but they are out of stock at
the moment and you do need some soldering experience. The PCBs are also doublesided and although you only need to solder one side it
can make it a bit more difficult sometimes and it's quite a hassle to remove something if you mess up.


Quote:
Or does someone have a tipp, how to start my lunetta building...all that links ( Intro into lunetta, ... and so on) I have visited, and they are helpfull, but me bares the impulse to start realy.

I think the best way to start out is to get a breadboard (if you don't have one already). Again you probably want to stay away from the cheap
ones. They can be useful and quite ok but it's a bit of a hit & miss. I recently got 5 of them for about 10,- from ebay and they are practically
useless. Not that they don't work but it's almost impossible to insert components. Anyway, breadboards are great for experimenting and you
could even make a whole synth without ever having to solder a single connection. They're ideal for lunettas as those circuits usually only have
a few components. You can pretty much just get some chips and start patching right away.

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thing, if you want cheap parts get them from china. Ebay and similar sites are ok for the occasional components
(I recently got 500 diodes for < €2,- incl shipping) but for most stuff I can highly recommend Tayda electronics.
They don't have the most exotic parts and the quality of some components might be subpar but you can get everything
you need there to make yourself a nice lunetta synth for a very low price. Downside is of course that it can take a while
to arrive and in rare occasions it might not arrive at all. Also the shippng costs are a bit higher than if you can source
locally but they're not that bad. They also post 10%/15% discount codes almost every month on their facebook page
which is a nice way to cover shipping costs Wink.

Even cheaper would be to get components out of old electrical gear which is probably how a lot of us started. However
components are so cheap these days and easy to obtain online that it's hardly worth it. Also with all the modern SMD
stuff it will get harder to find anything useful.

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Grumble



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personally I have never used Tayda, how much for the avarage shipping costs?
Usually I order at www.banggood.com or www.aliexpress.com they both send free of charge (most of the time) and no minimum order (also most of the time, but sometimes minimum order is 5 pcs or something like that)

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's hard to say what the average shipping costs are for Tayda as I think it is weight based with probably some initial costs. But as I
mentioned the discount codes often take care of most of it. Ebay, banggood, aliexpress can be a good source for components, and
even be cheaper, but I personally find it easier to order from Tayda if I need a bunch of things. And it pretty much always takes
between 2-3 weeks to arrive (there is also express shipping if you are willing to pay for it), with ebay I find that it can vary quite a lot.
I also had good experiences with banggood so far and if you search around a bit you can often find some discount codes for it as well.

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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Let me thank you all. I am very happy about all this help. Phobos is right: i am in the right subforum!
Very soon i will start to build my own little Lunetta with this LooneyBoard and i will tell you from time to time about it. And when i dont know further, i will ask you for help. And meanwhile i am sure: i will get Help Wink
Thanks a lot!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had never heard of the Looneyboard, but I think it's a splendid way to get started. You'll need some sort of patch panel. I like banana jacks myself, but I've seen people get good results from just bolts and clip leads.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. You'll probably do a few start-overs before you get the system for building front panels. That's where people get very creative, re-purposing old boxes and such.

Whatever, this is a fun way to learn. Share what you are doing here and you'll get lots of moral and technical help.

Oh yes, welcome

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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:47 am    Post subject: how will it go on ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all your tipps....i have a little bit more practise and a new soldering tipp and better solder...and now it all works better...What is with the Lunetta ?
Hmm...I am not happy with that idea of that looneyboard...too much components on one board...I am thinking about to build the modular of Castle Rocktronics...perhaps with some changes according to this simple non-Lunetta Circuits mentioned above and there is a stripboard layout of the 555 vco of Thomas Henry or perhaps the steiner filter of the yusynth (also one stripboard layout).
In the meantime i have bought for very few money Abletons LiveLite 9. And also for very few i got a beatstep. I have it now for less than two weeks, but i am surprised , how much i like it compared to my meanwhile hated FL Studio. My aim still is hardware, but for this meanwhile...
I have just uploaded a song here in online music. It shows the direction , in what i want to go, i am very interested in generative music...but also with this i would be very thankful for any tipp: practical tipps, modules for my modular, and i think, it will be necessary to read books or articles about it...but until now i found nearly nothing...Tipps are very welcome !


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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey good to see you are still around here,
you went somehow missing after the last PM.

It seems you make progress and even have published your first track!

Congrats,
cheers bb, gabbagabi
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Harry



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that RadioShack has gone out of business, they're selling clearanced out stuff online (most is still overpriced though). Not sure if theyre still offering it, but they were also giving a coupon code if you signed up to their mailing list. I ordered bunch of these:
https://www.radioshack.com/products/general-purpose-ic-pc-board
I think they'd be perfect for simple 1 or 2 ic Lunetta circuits, wish I had started mine with these.
https://www.radioshack.com/products/multipurpose-pc-board
There's also this one, which is kind of cool for larger circuits if you're more comfortable breadboarding.
Just something to consider if you're on the fence about prototyping method.
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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you...
i was around with some things after this last PM...Meanwhile i have sold some things and bought the field kit by koma elektronik (diy of course) - i think, this is that, what i needed at first for this, i have in mind. And now i am going still on with selling - by the way : does someone wants to buy a really good YashicaMat 124G for round about 230€ ( its an old but good twin lens reflect camera with very good lenses...compareable to the a little bit more famous Rolleiflex ) . With this i would have the money for the inspection of my Piaggio Ape and enough to definitely start with my modular...I hope , its only a question of longest two weeks, till i have sold the camera, 230€ is a very good price Wink ( but its very hard , really hard, to give the camera away ). Embarassed
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

for me Harry is totally right,

good prototyping facilitys are very important, they keep u happy.
Often you can keep a good prototype as a module.
then you feel success.
iam etching these prototypeboards on my own but with the purpose of building a proper module.
And since iam doing this - iam happy.

If you start to buy very expensive kits (where u may have to solder smd parts) and you can not get them to work, you WILL feel frustrated.
U sold your beloved camera for a non working piece of electronic, but in which u had so great expectations --> crisis.

so far, cheers gabbagabi


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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g-gabba...hmmm----seems you could take a view in the future...it happened like you've said...this damned kit isn't working
dont know, whether i am frustrated, but i am angry, because this time its not only my soldering, this damned kit somehow is wrong...i sent a mail to koma elektronik to hopefully get refunded - will see , what happens ( on their site they write, they would do everything for their buyers to be happy ) Wink

what belongs to prototyping on boards like you'
ve shown : i first have to learn to translate layouts from breadboard or stripboard to perfboard...the best would be, when i am able to translate from circuit diagram to perfboard, but this i havent tried until now...i have read the chapter about this in nicholas collins " handmade electronic music", but there it seems to me to be very difficult and a kind of secret talent...must loose fear for it...what could happen more than to ruin a perfboard, better than to ruin one of these expensive kits....
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Harry



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gabba, nice boards!

These types of boards are nice in particular for lunetta building (cmos ics with little extra passive components). It's basically a breakout board for the chip, giving you easy access to all it's pins.
Perfboard is great for a couple reasons. It offers great freedom in board design and it's easier to create layouts that somewhat mirror the actual schematic you're going off of. ICs (and other parts with short leads) can be a bit of a pain with perf, but is definitely still possible.
Premade pcbs are pretty badass too. Couldn't be easier really. Downsides are you're limited to whatever is produced out there and it won't help much creatively or educationally (in regards to learning electronics). If all you're after is making sounds then who cares really. If electronics is more a means to end for you then this maybe the way to go.
If you're new to electronics and serious about learning, I couldn't recommend a solderless breadboard enough. I put it off for so long and when I finally got one, it changed my life! Being able to expirement and test circuits quickly and reusing your parts over and over again will definitely help speed up the learning process.

edit:
As far as translating from schematic to perf/strip/breadboard it all comes down to connecting the dots. You can draw or print out your schematic and at each connection node (where two or more components connect) you make the necessary solder joints and highlight that portion of the schematic until it is completely highlighted. This will assure that you haven't missed anything. Breadboarding requires you to memorize where each internal bus rail is oriented so you know what connects to what.
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

get some inspiration this morning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHYhtbE3gzk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Y8v7qhL6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWuoDa2UE8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPUmuRSxqys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QbeC0Hw2QA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4lyVt3w0rk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH110yjYZ2g

Last edited by g.gabba on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What do you think about this "breadboard friends", this set of additional boards to help connecting your layout to standards like audio out or connecting to pots. I have problems when breadboarding to use the pots correctly and this little boards may perhaps help....???
( former mutable instrumentsn , now from amazingsynth.com )
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my personal opinion:
we calling this DIY, not "buy somebodys elses DIY",
i never bought something prefabricated
the closest to prefab was using yusynth pcb designs to etch them myself

how much are these breadboard friends? for 1,50€ i could imagine to maybee think about to buy them , probably

and that means? u already have a breadboard?
what else?
Oszilloscope?
+/-12V or +/-15V powersupply?

give us some informations Smile
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StrictKopf



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have enough breadboards...and now with your help i have ordered this breadboard with power supply. ... I ve tried to use an oscilloskope on android on my tablet, but this is not very good, if you have any recommendation for this, you could really help me...
for power supply for my modular i thought about building this power supply from castle rocktronics...

But there is still one question about breadboarding: do you shorten the legs of the resistors, caps and so on? I always have trouble with them with their long legs because every time youre touching the board, youre moving all this elements and again nothing works any more. on the other hand: if you shorten the legs, they are not longer to use for "every" project, youre trying. What is your opinion ? how do you handle it ? By the way: i have decided to do all my work the next time maqinly on breadboard, perhaps even building a greater lunetta only on breadboard !?
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i still have this in the storage:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Hantek-6022BE-PC-6022BE-48-MSA-S-USB-Digital-Oszillosko-20-MHz-Bandbreite-2CH/112851078435?hash=item1a4672cd23:g:p2EAAOSw68NZgZk4
and i can say nothing really bad about it, only sometimes u need to reset it by plug and replug the usb

about short on the breadboard
first it got better as ive got stronger glasses, no joke
second once i bought a bigger amount of the most common components, so i can cut the legs and can reuse them for the different spacings.
Staples are a good source of bridges for bread and stripboarding, watch out for copper staples as they may conduct better https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapesco-Copper-Staples-24-1000/dp/B008UQYCEQ

yes u can start build a lunetta only on breadboard, an inspiration may find here http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-69028.html


powersupply: the rocktronic is +9V only? no -9V?
try this: go around your flat and the cellar and collect all powersupplys you can find, most probably "steckernetzteile"
may u will find what u need. And if u have two with the same voltage rating u could have a dual supply instantly.

additionally write your friends an email that you would be happy to collect there old electronic stuff, old tv or computer screens are a god source of elkos and heat dispenser.
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Harry



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a very cheap dso138 oscilliscope ordered as a kit on ebay from china. I absolutely love mine, but wouldn't say you must have an oscilloscope. You can get by just fine with a selfmade logic probe and audio probe.
The power supply on castle rocktronics is not really a power supply, the wall adapter it assumes would be the power supply. Lunettas are super flexible with supply voltage, so yeah it would be smart to go with a +/-12 or +/-15 if you plan on including modular synth elements.
I don't shorten any of legs when breadboarding. For some dense circuits, I'll sometimes need small needlenose pliers to insert components. Other times if the area I'm working on gets too crowded I'll take a wire and reroute a section to an empty portion of the board. For pots I solder solid core wire to connect. Breadboards can get pretty messy, but it beats soldering everything together everytime you want to test something. Simplify the schematic whenever possible.
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g.gabba



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there is also the ATX-Powersupply-possibility
https://de.wikihow.com/Ein-ATX-Computer-Netzteil-in-ein-Labor-Netzteil-umbauen

harry, neat litte thing that dso138 oscilliscope Smile
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