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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Whacky, Zany, Weird Stripboard Layout
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry dudes, I was away for a while.
Yeah Lochmaster is a good program, it's basically just a drawing tool though. There's a test function to find out which parts of the board are connected together, and a way of seeing all the parts of the board which are currently electrically unused, but beyond that the design is pretty much down to you.
I've thought about an auto layout program to, but then I stopped. Not to say it couldn't be done, but there are a number of complicated things to get past, and I don't even have the time/motivation to write a program like Lochmaster!!! It would be heaps more involved.
The problem is one of topography. That's the branch of maths which deals in the layout and manipulation of surfaces. First the program needs to know the shape and size of every component. Then it's a case of inputting the information that tells it which lead of each component is to be connected to each of a series of "nodes" (connection points). While doing that the program needs to take into account the physical layout of what it is constructing between these nodes, and how to get it to take up the least amount of space. So it's concievable that the program could run it's construction algorithm hundreds of times and come back with dozens of electrically sound layouts, possibly only four of which would fit on commercially available stripboard and of course one of these would be the best. The reading in of the circuit from a schematic would really be just a bit of OCR work right at the start. The variations in the way of coming up with the "right" solution are the hard bit of programming. I have done some programming, and I think it could be done. (Hell if they wrote SPICE they can write this!!!) The important thing is that it will be "they" not me. I've barely got enough time to get my soldering iron hot before it's time to cook some food, change a nappy etc.
Sorry if that was a bit of a ramble.
Just wanted to let you know I've been thinking about this already for a while.
Uncle-Krunkus

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncle-krunkus wrote:
I've barely got enough time to get my soldering iron hot before it's time to cook some food, change a nappy etc.
Uncle-Krunkus


yeah I'm with you there too.

It's a shame it involves topography and not topology. (My father lectures in topology)
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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you want to "auto route" from schematic
take a look at Eagle. its freeware and its quite powerful tool - and there are versions for win, mac and linux

Guided Tour through the EAGLE Layout Editor

the only but here is that is not Stripboard Design,
so you need to etch the board but its not that hard


daniel
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry,
I think it is topology.
Topography is one of those words that you just make up on the spot!! It's a cross between topology and typography and is therefore the study of the surface of the buttons on a keyboard!!!!!

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Express PCB is freeware that can do Vero. I've never used it and I'm not sure if it works for mac. Heres a link of some people discussing it on diystompboxes http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/topic-33026.html&highlight=stripboard+veroboard+express+pcb
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncle-krunkus wrote:
Sorry,
I think it is topology.
Topography is one of those words that you just make up on the spot!! It's a cross between topology and typography and is therefore the study of the surface of the buttons on a keyboard!!!!!


hey krunkus,

No- I think you were right the first time. Topography is to do with geography and the like. Topology is the study of x-dimensions, manifolds in y-space- or something truely bizzare and along those lines. My old man and his worldwide professor mates dream up all this wild stuff involving knots and visualisation of utterly potty stuff and then come up with mathematical formulae (very hard sums) to prove or disprove it.

I found this bit of software (for all you poor mortals who can't visualise in 3-D :D ), to help you do just that :))

http://www.pims.math.ca/knotplot/index.html

Dale Rolfsen who is credited on this site is a life long friend of me and my family btw (ie this is some serious shit that only a handful of people do- One of them of who, is my Dad!)

Tom :)
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wild Zebra wrote:
Express PCB is freeware that can do Vero. I've never used it and I'm not sure if it works for mac.


Zebra, it doesnt look so. Perhaps I should just get a PC? Or send them a nice letter saying.....grrrrrrrrr..... :)
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thats to bad. Not too sure if grrrrrrrrr would work, but its worth a try.
Sometimes you Mac guys get all the tough breaks. It seems like that software is pretty popular in the stompbox community.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:


I found this bit of software (for all you poor mortals who can't visualise in 3-D Very Happy ), to help you do just that Smile)

http://www.pims.math.ca/knotplot/index.html

Dale Rolfsen who is credited on this site is a life long friend of me and my family btw (ie this is some serious shit that only a handful of people do- One of them of who, is my Dad!)

Tom Smile


wow knotplot! i have been using this software for drawing string figures - as it can be sometimes hard just in regular drawing programs. say thank to Dale Rolfsen - but as mostly everything is better real than emulated here is a picture of me having a break at work and making a "crab" (string figure from New Guinea)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

knot theory rules

sorry for the off topicnes

daniel

Last edited by dnny on Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WOW! Is there anything this man can't do?? :D

Yep real is much better than emulated (but I still want a G2!)
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm sorry to bump old threads.. i've read the parts list for this layout and, due to my exteme lack of experience, i need a clue for some of them:

C1 MKS 2 / B=2,5 <--- i've found mks 2, but 2.5 stands for what?
C10 2u2 NP <-- sorry, I can't figure out that :\

thx in advance,
Luca

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry about that,
C1 is a 100nF MKT or any other polyester cap.
The 2/B2.5 is a layout detail added by the program I use (German) it actually means lead spacing of 2 on a 2.5mm pitch board.
NP is Non-Polarised

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Axiom



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and C10?

Thanks Smile

Luca

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

C10 is a 2u2 or 2.2uF Non Polarised (I used NP electrolytic)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've just finished the component soldering.. btw, i've misunderstood the translation of stripboard and i've bought a board without premade copper rows... now i've to do all connections by hand.. lol

Luca

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a dumb question: since i've only find this type of SPST switch:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

how I can connect this? i'm using Lorenzo's layout as reference.

Thank you,
Luca

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Luca!

You can only use that as a pure on-off switch. So it could be used just to pass or not pass a signal. You'd be better off getting switches that have 3 prongs on them (SPDT)- that way you could use it as an on/off and an on/on switching between two points.

It sounds complicated- but it isn't.
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've figured out how to use them... btw, as expected, my Wacky box don't seems to work Razz I will check tomorrow if there are errors... its hard for a total beginner do all electrical joints from scratch Very Happy perhaps, next time, i think is better to learn how to make a pcb.

cheers,
Luca

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: how to do ace soldering :D Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Axiom wrote:
its hard for a total beginner do all electrical joints from scratch


Axiom,

Soldering is a bit of a fine art. It's worth practicing a bit before you set out to do some serious work ;)

It's also important to have the right kind of Iron. Don't use a 'gun' type. They may look cool- especially in the movies- but they are difficult to get intricate work done. I recommend getting a standard 25W Iron to start with with a fairly fine cupped tip.

You need this tip to hold some solder. Let the Iron get up to heat- preferably using some sort of stand- with a small sponge in it. The sponge should be wet but not soaking. Brush the tip of the Iron on the sponge to 'prime' it. Using some good quality solder (with incorporated flux) just touch the end of the Iron tip with the solder and let it melt on to the tip. Not too much now- but the trick is to have a really tiny blob on the very end of the tip.

With the component already in place, (start with the smallest first ie resistor etc), put the Iron tip between the component wire and the circuit trace. Apply the solder and let the solder run round the point being soldered. Then immediately take the Iron away from the component.

Let it rest for a few seconds and then repeat this whole thing all over again. It will be slow and frustrating to start- but you will get better with practice and it will get faster and faster.

The trick is to end up with your join being nice and shiny- NOT dull- as this could mean a dry joint- which is very bad- and it takes ages to work out if you have one of these or not without starting all over again.

for the record- older dry joints look a bit like tiny 'volcanoes'!!- It's a good way of finding those dodgy points in old pedals that don't work no more.

It's also very important that you have nice dry and clean surfaces that you are soldering to. Good electronic outlets sell erasers (rubbers- in this country!) that will clean up the board for you- and come highly recommended :)

Got that?? Phew!! I'm on the bourbon tonight so typing is fun (and WOW no spelling mistakes- hurrah!!) :))

BUT jumping in at the deep-end is definitely the best way to learn this shit- so well done mate (without sounding too patronising!!)

Tom
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Macaba



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is pretty much my foolproof method.

Here's how I like to think of it, and probably represents the truth-

That 'little' bit you have on the tip of the iron before you do the joint, its purpose is to increase the surface area touching the area being soldered, so more heat is present, and makes the perfect joint as you apply solder.

I find that you very quickly go from having the solder touching the iron, giving you about half the amount of solder present in the final joint to PUSHING the rod of solder against the pcb, so the joint flows onto the PCB/Track properly.

Cor, its tricky to explain.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Macaba wrote:


Cor, its tricky to explain.


That's why I recommended the Bourbon!!!

All will be back to normal tomorrow :(
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.......But Mac, that makes perfect sense (dispite my eyes are seeing double now!!!!!!!!!)


bedtime :D
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thx you all folks. Tomorrow I will recheck whole board. bedtime now Smile

'nite

Luca

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My main tip would be to make sure both (or all) surfaces get hot enough for the solder to flow easily into the joint. If you heat the lead and add solder to it and the pad is still cold you can get dry joints. If you heat the pad and add solder and the lead is still cold (much worse) you'll get what I call a cold joint.
Usually it will be a little harder to get the lead up to temperature than the pad, so try to touch both at the same time, but with the iron tip "along" the lead.
Keep the iron no hotter than about 250C unless you're doing heavier stuff which sinks the heat quickly.
And keep it to less than 5secs per lead. (Most semiconductors are rated at 10secs@250C) 2-3secs is better. Put 3 or 4 semi's in at a time and go around the group so the first one goes cold before you get back to it's next lead. Ceramic caps don't like to sweat it out for to long either!!
And practice, practice, practice.
I don't mean to sound too remedial, but I realised I've been doing this for 29 years and I like to teach whatever I can when people are keen.
Andrew

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
.......But Mac, that makes perfect sense (dispite my eyes are seeing double now!!!!!!!!!)


bedtime Very Happy


Haha, you crazy mofo. Laughing
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