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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Play Your Guitar Through Your Sound Lab
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lie my eyboard has got no, ah there ist it, k.

edit : hmm, this a bit of an unlucky page break.

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks,

When I printed it it didn't show up. I think thats what Blue Hell is
trying to say about page break. I'll have to watch out when I print it this time. Do you know if you need the 1v/oct mod to use this?

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Last edited by Wild Zebra on Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, yeah, I overlook details like such all the time & and then it's right in front of my nose of course.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No it doesn't need the 1V/Oct mod, but remember it doesn't track the frequency of your guitar notes anyway. It mainly allows you to put your guitar through the VCF/VCA/Trig/AR setup to create auto wah type of effects.
See ya,

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, Uncle-Krunkus

I kinda thought about that after I wrote it. Well I corrected my page-scaling and hope to verify it soon. I'm super busy at work so as soon as I find the time, which I'm sure I will.

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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncle-krunkus wrote:
No it doesn't need the 1V/Oct mod, but remember it doesn't track the frequency of your guitar notes anyway.


I think that this could be possible.There's an IC:LM2907 or LM2917 that convert a frequency into a voltage: It has a linear response Hz/V (not Oct/V).

Vo=Vcc*Fin*C*R (look at http://futurlec.com/Linear/LM2907N.shtml)

If you look to Ray's VCOs (for examplehttp://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/OctVCO_LM394_FixedSquare.html) it has a Lin CV.the structure of VCO is very similar to Sound Lab VCOs.Probably we can add two resistors (1Meg and 100k in LM394 VCO) to create a Lin VCO on the SL. BUT:
What is the linear coefficient of this VCO? I mean increasing the CV to 1V how many Hz we obtain?

The linear coefficient of LM2907 is:

Co=Vcc*C*R

so we can regulate it changing R or C.for Obtain an accurate Hz to Hz conversion (I mean I play a 400Hz note with the guitar and I listen a 400Hz Note from the SL) the linear coefficient of LM2907 should be the inverse of the linear coefficient of the VCO: Co(VCO)=1/Co(LM2907)
Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised Shocked Confused Cool Laughing Mad Razz Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
Are you confused?
Maybe someone could ask to Mr. Ray something about this!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmmm,
I have an all day exam tomorrow,
the linear co-efficient of that is,.......
time for me to assume the horizontal and sleep.
Will get back to this idea,
later.
Andrew

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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Frequency to voltage conversion is a difficult bit of business expecially with a signal as complex as a guitar. The reason that most guitar to MIDI convertors have hex pickups is so the tone from each string can be individually converted to a frequency and then to a MIDI value as well as to provide polyphony. I'm sure that knowing the string gives the software some advantage related to knowing which note to convert to. Conversion of a normal guitar output to a voltage isn't impossible but its going to be tricky. You would have to play very carefully and only one note at a time in order to convert effectively. You would want the convertor to linearly translate the frequency to a corresponding voltage because the frequencies of the notes already increase (or decrease) logarithmically. I have never attempted this but I imagine a phase locked loop might come in handy (LMC568, or CD4046). Creating a filter to give you just the fundamental tone of each note is tough over the range of a guitar because it covers several octaves (hence octave overtones will be present in lower notes or you won't get the higher notes). Hey if someone figures it out let me know it would be very cool.

Cheers all

ADHD Boy

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dj_death



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everybody i'm new in the world of synths and i'm very interested in building the Sound Lab mini synth and use it with my guitar. Before a couple of weeks in Aron's diy stompboxes forum a schematic of a guitar synth was posted http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/topic-36713-0.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=34f32b58c6e586280cd6c42d57bba0f0 .

This circuit uses an LM2907 Frequency to Voltage converter to control a vcf and a vco. Looks very interesting and i'm wondering if it could be used in the Sound Lab to control the vcos. As i see the output of LM2907 controls directly the vcf. Pin2 (timing capacitor) is connected with the 4046 PLL "signal in" and as i think it controls the vco. Maybe it worths a try. There is also an envelope follower gate generator to control the vcf for wha sounds.

Ray's Guitar Trigger looks very nice. I made some simple mods to control the overdive and the sensitivity of the gate generator. I was wondering if the envelope could control directly the vcos, vcf and vca of the soundlab and not through the attack-release envelope generator. So Ray suggested to me to use the spare opamp of the guitar trigger to buffer the voltage of C5 to be used as a CV. This is the schematic of Ray's Guitar Trigger with my simple mods. There is a gain pot instead of the switch. The preamplifier is now very, very simple with the MXR-Distortion+
with almost the same frequency response and

[/img]http://files.electro-music.com/phpbb-files/guitar_trigger_mods.png
John


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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's possible to add a microphone input using the spare op-amp as a *100 inverting (or not inverting) amplifier connected with the original input?
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I never really got around to making this, but would still like to. I have a couple questions.

1-Whats up with the 0V in unkles layout? Can I just use a 9V battery and not hook that up?

2-I patched out my SL so I reckon I would make an output where it says "to sound lab pin 3 of IC 4" and thats hot and throw a wire to ground?

thanks

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa,
Yeah I s'pose so. Breadboard it up and see what happens.

Zebra,
It runs off a dual supply like the SoundLab. +9V/0V/-9V So no, you can't put 1 battery across the +&-9V lines.
On your 2nd question I don't know what "and thats hot and throw a wire to ground?" means.

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I'd just use two batts and hook it up like the SL. Gotcha

Quote:
On your 2nd question I don't know what "and thats hot and throw a wire to ground?" means



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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, so that signal goes to the tip on the jack, and the sleeve goes to ground (0V)
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A ha ground 0V. I probably would have messed that up. I'd like to have a nice tremolo. I couldn't get my DIY Pulsar working, so I figured I'd use the old SL. Thanks U.K.!
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I finally got around to building the ole trigger this weekend! After I noticed its been a year since this post started. It went pretty well. Not that difficult of a project. I used Uncle K's stripboard, and it worked like a charm. Thank you. The gate is a little sensitive with my guitar, but I can't see using it that much. Got lots of really nice tremolo's, thats what I was going for. Except I was a little dissapointed with the square wave, you get some serious clicking sometimes. Someone can back me up on this one, I kinda think its normal from the voltages hitting (rising falling) whatever, not sure. If you select band pass and filter, you can get rid of it.
Hopefully someone can correct me on this issue. Oh and I want to have it turn on using a stereo jack, do I just pull the 0v batt connection from the board and hook it to the sleeve?
Thanks Ray for the great circuit and Uncle K another successful stripboard. BRAVO!!!!! Cool
Maybe a soundsample in the future.

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stefano



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Geenral doubts about The Guitar Trigger
Subject description: Is it a Voltage Controller or a simply auto-Wah ?
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Hello,
Very Happy
this is my first post. I've just completed my mini sound lab and.. hey it's simply great. It worked at the first shot and I etched the board by myself!
I'm still getting acquainted with it and I am able to generate sounds like the swelling ones heard in the 70s Razz Laughing .

I built a guitar trigger as well, using the excellent layouts posted in this thread but unfortunately it doesn't work, neither if I breadboard it.

First,I would like to state my assumptions to the project "Guitar Trigger" as published by Ray:
- it is designed to generate a signal equivalent to a "gate on" (that is: I pick a guitar string and this should produce a 0 to +9V step) ?
- the connection to PIN 3 of IC4 is a Voltage Control ?
- is it a simply auto-Wah ? In this case haw should I patch it ?

This are the symptoms:
- when I get the Guitar trigger on, I hear a sound from the Minisound Lab but nothing more.
- If i read the voltage at the external Gate Output I get always a +9V (it doesn't fall down to ground !!)

Bye Exclamation
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ultra



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i am curious about the guitar trigger vs. drum trigger? is the drum trigger only for sending voltages via piezo or would it sound good at the end of my korg esx sampler? or would i want to use the guitar trigger if i'm attaching it to my sampler?

another question about both:
i built the sound lab but now i'm going to use it as an effect box, since i have plenty of software synthesizers and i don't deal much with synthesis anyway. since it appears that for the guitar trigger, you're bypassing the oscillators and connecting to the filter and amp envelope, could i do away with any knobs and switches in the oscillator 1 and 2 sections? i'm making a 1U rack panel for this and i'd like to keep the controls at a minimal. once this is turned into a guitar trigger, do the osc 1 and 2 controls do anything at all? if not i'd like to leave them off the panel entirely.
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stefano



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Guitar Trigger by RW is intended to trigger the synth's ADSR (AR) only, **not** to generate a control voltage for controlling the oscillators' frequency.
In this way, enabling the filter to be controlled by the AR generator, you have a filter profile with the same shape of the AR. If you set the volume of the oscillators and noise OFF and raise the volume of the output, when you play the guitar you do two things:
- hear the not of the guitar
- trigger the AR --> Filter producing a wha effect

Bye Razz
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hans



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have a problem with the guitar trigger

i plugged it in one of the vcfs inputs (the vcf is controlled by the lfo)

and i can hear the guitarsignal

but there arent really much settings the filter is actually changing the guitar sound

the lfo bleed is most of the time the only thing that is modulated by the filter

could somebody please help me?
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tomahaamu



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey,

i think i found something you people might like to have a look at...

there was some talk on this thread about getting real cv tracking for audio input, i.e. guitar, in order to use it with a soundlab or other VCO. So that you could basically plug in a guitar and get the soundlab to follow the notes you are playing or something...

I'm very interested in doing that, so I've been googling on this forever again and again, without much results... the problem is, there are chips that will convert frequency to voltage, but they all do it linearly so you get 1kHz/volt for example. so it won't track properly on a soundlab, because the SL uses 1V/oct. (if you don't understand this, google it out, i'm just too tired to explain very much)

so: what you need after the f to v conversion is a hz/v to oct/v conversion, yes? well, google says there's this: Korg-MS-02
for the full schematic go to: (& scroll down)
http://www.cykong.com/Synths/Korg%20MS-02/KorgMS-02.htm

(I'll try to attach a close up of the converter part, if i can work this...)

so, for f/v maybe LM2907 or AD650, and then this Korg-MS-20 Log Amp from there on, and there you have it, guitar to 1oct/V, or what?

anyway. I'm off to bed, it's 2am.
I'd love to hear what you think...

Tom


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tomahaamu



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to post this link, but this is what we're talking about here :
http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/modules/rs30.htm
does anybody have an idea how this module does the f/v conversion?

and this is kind of related too:
http://www.moogmusic.com/moogguitar/
but you've probably seen that already huh?

bye,
Tom
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Gonecat



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Question about that MS-02 Log Amp Schematic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all of you,

I have built out this MS-02 Log Amp on a breadboard, but have some remaining questions about it -

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a 10k pot and a 10kB pot? (the guy at Potentiometers.com couldn't even tell me!)

Also, am i correct to use a generic silicon diode for this?


I haven't got it working yet, going back over the circuit. Am running on 9v at the moment, so perhaps that's part of the prob.

I also couldn't find the matched pair they refer to, but used a NTE42 instead, which i am hoping is a good alternative?
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about that MS-02 Log Amp Schematic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gonecat wrote:
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a 10k pot and a 10kB pot? (the guy at Potentiometers.com couldn't even tell me!)


Possibly meaning 'B' type pots, ie. Linear. 'A' type would be Logarithmic

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source:
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the response.

So on the schematic we have above for the MS-02's log amp, would the two not marked with a 'b' be 'logarithmic'?
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