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Favorite Reverb Tools
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TheGreenGroove



Joined: Sep 26, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject: Favorite Reverb Tools Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everyone, I am looking right now for some way of getting realistic and controlable reverb. I am wondering what peoples favorite tools are for gaining this effect. Right now I am using the Cubase SX Built in plug-ins and am finding them extremely limiting.

So tell me, what is your favorite reverb tool?
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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For plugins I like Reaktor's reverb as well as Sonitus. For hardware I am very pleased with Lexicon's MPX550.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personal favorites:

RoomVerb M1 for the Soundart Chameleon - http://www.soundart-hot.com/english/users1_9.htm

Altiverb - http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/AltiverbMain.html

DreamVerb - http://www.uad-1.com/products/software/UAD-1/dreamverb/index.html

Plate 140 - http://www.uad-1.com/products/software/UAD-1/plate140/index.html

RealVerb - http://www.uad-1.com/products/software/UAD-1/realverb/index.html

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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
RoomVerb M1 for the Soundart Chameleon

Stein do you own a Soundart Chameleon?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Realtime: Lexicon MPX-1

Convolution(non-realtime): Cool Edit Pro 2.0 (built-in) or SIR vst.

Lots of convolution impulses at http://www.noisevault.com (SIR can be found through there as well). But I tend to record my own (I use a dog clicker from a pet store and a portable minidisc/MP3 recorder).
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
RoomVerb M1 for the Soundart Chameleon

Stein do you own a Soundart Chameleon?



Yes.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Reverb Tools Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TheGreenGroove wrote:
Hi everyone, I am looking right now for some way of getting realistic and controlable reverb. I am wondering what peoples favorite tools are for gaining this effect. Right now I am using the Cubase SX Built in plug-ins and am finding them extremely limiting.

So tell me, what is your favorite reverb tool?


In a mix, either live or in the studio, reverb can enveloped using a synth with great success with . Think of it as an extra ( stereo) synth voice. This method, or rather, approach to using reverb will often render a more interesting and musical blend. What you really want is to add room, some kind of spatial fatness and body to the sounds. The resulting mix should of course have a "realistic" sound but that does not mean you cannot shape the wet signal as you like.

You can also add stepfiltering in there somewhere.

This is an example of a bass line that is being processed in real time using similar techniques.

Wholesale

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm thinking this is a 'production/engineering topic'..moving
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yup.. smart move.. Very Happy
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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Catchy, funky bass line, Stein! Nice effects too.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy

THX

This is a good example of how reverb can be used within a patch. However, the effect will then become a part of the voice and needs to be played. This hardly works well for post processing.

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah....groovy track....cool lead sound...
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just a plinky organ.. but I like organs

Shocked

anyway..

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

an Elektro 80 ultra-organ™...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"middle aged dude with an ultraorgan looking for a gig.."

right.. Shocked Rolling Eyes

Wink

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TheGreenGroove



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Electro80 are you talking about running the wet signal of the reverb BACK into the Filter input of the synthesiser? I don't exactly understand what you mean by Enveloped by a synth, but It sounds like a good idea because yes the intent is to fatten up the sounds most of the time. Generally I only want to simulate a room if I am running a reverb over the whole track.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, but technically .."back into" isn´t quite correct.. but I guess we are thinking abut the same thing.

The NM-1/G2 are two inexpensive tools for this. They have audio inputs and you can set up the processing patch as somplec as you like in order to make the tone you want.

A modern reverb creates its own envelope.. which is what you hear when you listen to ony the wet output of a reverb device. You can however treat this signal as if comes from a synth.. the wet signal is the oscillator output.. then throw fixed filter banks, VCFs, envelope generators VCSa and whatnot. Imagine simply effects first.. like using a really slow attack on the reverb feed.

It is however more fun to do this in stereo.. so you gotta at least double everything. Doing this the old way is great too, but most analog modulars will need signal level adapters. I haven´t seen any of these around recently, but I am sure there must be some DIY kits or schematics available still . This does of course also mean that you just as well can split and pipe a signal to a reverb device or any outboard device you might think of .. out of an analog modular.. and then back in after processing. Be sure to have the proper level/gain adapters around though.

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TheGreenGroove



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am still not sure I understand how this would work. I understand the idea of treating the wet reverb signal as an oscillator, but I am not sure where I would find the ADSR to run it into. Are there LFO, Filer, ADSR boxes that I can buy? A piece of equipment or plug-in that allows me to manipulate any audio signal as though it were a synthesiser?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are lotsa software virtual synths that can be used for processing audio tracks or live audio inputs. The most cost effective tools these days for realtime processsing are the Clavia NM-1 and the G-2.. racks or keys editions.. you pick whatever suits you best.

You can of course do this old style using analog modulars, but this is still relatively expensive. If you choose this route, be sure to use the correct level/gain adapters though.

You would of course want to do this in stereo, so if you are doing this using Doepfers, Oakleys or MOTMs or whatever, you need at least 2 of each module. In some cases in can be worthwhile to think M-S and then you might at times find that you willl even need 5 splits or more depening on your chosen level of "serious fun".

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TheGreenGroove wrote:
A piece of equipment or plug-in that allows me to manipulate any audio signal as though it were a synthesiser?


An analog modular synth. ( But do get the proper gain/level adapters. )

This is as old school as it gets. Before the true modern synths ( Moog etc. ) showed up on the scene, processing audio using custom built equipment was what electronic music was about. Many of the electronic music studios/tape labs that bought analog modular synths early on would integrate these with what was already there.

An interesting thing is that the mentality at the times led popular experimental acts like Pink Floyd to rather pursue the tape lab setting rather than laying down tracks like The Beatles did. Then they took the tape lab sound with them when they did gigs.

I guess we are still seeing the influence of the BBC Radiophonics Workshop.

Synths never really caught up with all this.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think what Elektro80 is getting at is to use the reverb as a sort of filter module. In a typical subtractive synthesis patch you have:

osc -> fixed filter bank -> low pass filter -> VCA/Envelope -> reverb

Elektro80 is suggesting reversing the order of the VCA/Envelope and the reverb. I guess you could also put the reverb in at any point after the osc.

Am I right, Elektro80?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is one possible config.

Or..

Mono signal = osc -> fixed filter bank -> low pass filter -> VCA/Envelope ( this is your main synth signal .. pan to mid )

split at outpout.. send to a stereo reverb

then_ stereo compressor/limiter - stereo distortion - fixed filter banks - low pass ( and this one might be say.. stepped by a sequencer.. so you have like 16 filter states that the sequencer will run through ) - stereo/compressor limiter - Stereo VCA / envelope.

Obviously you might want to add in control sections that can fade or change the raw synth signal too.. like ducking it in the decay state of the adsr and use the rattlting stepfiltered reverb feed for that section of the sound.

Then.. why not also split this even more and slide in some envelope followers / SHs and more.. and set up some kind of stereo pan.. or signal controlled scheme for whatever..
Main thing is to create something that feels rich and full and will move spatially while you play.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are numerous ways to set this up. The most important side to this is seeing those obnoxious outboards as useful within a patch, and not simply strapped to the synth output. I tend to think that using whatever is in the kitchen drawer is what electronic music used to be about anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And you can throw in vocoders into the patch too. No need for a microphone, you can use a some signal somewhere from within the patch as the carrier and then some other as the modulator.


The attached file ( which will be online for only a limited time) has something like 25 such similar patches - using vocoder, reverbs, compressors and more.

( Yes Kassen, there are some drums here.. old style step sequenced synth stuff )

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Last edited by elektro80 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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deknow



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stein, that reads like the answer key to some audio production textbook!

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