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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Alpha Juno DCO
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Alpha Juno DCO Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I never owned any DCO synth, I didn't like the sound when they first came out. Laughing

Anyhow, I have been playing with tracking comb filters for alias free wave shaping and was trying to get one of the Juno Saw AM'ed Pulse variations SAW 02/03 in the manual.

The diagram shows a double frequency rectangle wave whose upper edge tracks the shape of a sawtooth over 2 periods.
I patched this using a unipolar copy of the master Sawtooth AMing the double frequency rectangle, assuming that this would sound identical to the wave as illustrated.

Just in case, I also patched a version that duplicated the wave shape exactly by shifting both inputs to the LevMult to unipolar then converting the result to bipolar.

There is a significant difference in tone, one has more pronounced even harmonics. Problem is, I don't know if the diagram in the manual is a stylised representation of the wave or strictly accurate.

Does anyone know what a real, unfiltered, alpha juno SAW 02 looks like on a scope or wave editor?


junoA.png
 Description:
Unipolar, like the manual
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junoA.png



junoB.png
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Bipolar
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junoB.png


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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cant tell wright now.. i once made a emulation of the 202 oscilator...which is similar to the DCO´s in the polyphon synths... i had a better working version for the NM1...on the G2 we have as usual some artefacts when doing strange things as the 2 oct sub oscilator pulse...

I however wouldnt be surprised if the alpha juno one is different..


G-201 .pch2
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 Filename:  G-201 .pch2
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Alpha Juno DCO Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Does anyone know what a real, unfiltered, alpha juno SAW 02 looks like on a scope or wave editor?


If you'd settle for a jx10 as well, I could make a pic. Hopefully I'll have time for it tonight.

BTW: intriguing avatar, G2ian. A homage-in-disguise to Talking Heads - talking pants?

edit: read it too quickly. I guess the JX is no good for lack of AM (and you're really after a specific alphajuno patch). Sorry.

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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think this avatar is from Dr Seuss... That drawing style is instantly recognizable ...

I totally invented my avatar and take full creative credit for it Smile
/Dasz

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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
I think this avatar is from Dr Seuss... That drawing style is instantly recognizable ...

Ah, I see now. I was a bit scared at first 'cause I didn't know what it was Wink

(OK I googled)

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JohnC



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Alpha Juno Sawtooth Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Alpha Juno uses a half-sine wave instead of a true sawtooth. The diagram in the Roland manual is incorrect.

Are you thinking "Hoover?"
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peterw



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My Alpha Juno 2 unfiltered PWM saw looks very much like your unipolar scope picture.

It is unipolar but looks a lot cleaner.

Sorry I cannot post a picture as I do not have a digital camera.
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Jason



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have an alpha juno.
Would it be helpful to post a pic of its waveforms?
I would be happy to do so.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please do.

Unfiltered DCO Sawtooth wave 1,2,4 and 5 would be great.
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what is a good oscilloscope app? any specifics on what I should set it to?
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is using Nuendo's internal oscilloscope. Is this sufficient?
Oh yes and it is an Alpha Juno2. I also have an MKS-50 which is closer to an alpha juno 1 though they are all quite similar, let me know which is most helpful. I can do the rest once I know I am getting the info you want.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey that is perfect thanks. It looks like a quarter sine Smile

Sawtooth 2,4 and 5 would be good (3 is just like 2 with variable width).

Maybe one square to make sure it is actually square Laughing

Ta very much.

PS Does that unit have the 'what the' preset? Any chance of a short and simple one or two note mp3?
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry my previous post was inaccurate. My compressor was in the signal path and I wasnt thinking. So here is a cleaner version of the waveforms. My apologies. Next is "What The"
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alpha Juno 2 preset "What The"
I didnt edit this , if it is not at factory default someone else did , but I doubt it.
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh the lovely hoover.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Jason.

The curved back of the sawtooth and sloping top/bottom of the square look like the result of a DC block somewhere in the signal path. It might be in the synth itself but, despite the waves looking quite different on the scope to the ideal shape, it is not that significant to the sound.

A 6dB high pass at the lowest frequency setting gives the same distortions. Come to think of it, that is probably what is happening in the Juno, it has a high pass filter which is never completely off Rolling Eyes

Thanks again
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes I tried a different input on my soundcard as I was still not going direct and got better results. I thought bypassing the compressor would be enough for this but I was wrong, obviously adding anything in the path was a mistake. I tested plugging directly in and the waveforms are different I can post those if needed.
This DC block you speak of, can you elaborate a bit for me?
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason wrote:
This DC block you speak of, can you elaborate a bit for me?


It is usually just a capacitor in series to block DC from the input. It is like a very low frequency high pass filter. The idea is to pass AC (audio) and stop DC (constant voltages).

I'm guessing that the new shots just look a little less curvy?
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Jason



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes here is one of the pulse1 waveform again. Yes just a bit less curvy.
Thanks
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the help.
Here is a model of the sawtooth DCO, it has a bit extra to get Juno-ish type sounds, Var 1,2 and 3. Var 4 is just the raw waves for auditioning via the switch at the bottom of the first column.
Just an experiment for people to play with if they want.


AJ2.pch2
 Description:
Alpha Juno 2 Saw DCO model

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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

regarding this DC block malarky, i sampled the outputs on my nord with a software OSC and got similar looking results (square/pules waves) to those above. Is this normal. E.g. it isn't really square is it?

Also I sampled my waldorf pulse too n that is really curved, not very square at all at the extremes.

Cheers

R.

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Jason



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

right on g2ian.
Thanks for the patch, I can hear some similar aspects indeed.

Razz
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