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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Assigning a knob and button at the same time
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ark



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Assigning a knob and button at the same time
Subject description: Is there a way to do that with a MIDI Automate module?
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I want to arrange for a panel knob to send a value on a MIDI CC whenever I twist it, for incoming values on that MIDI CC to affect the displayed value for that panel knob, and for the button below the knob to send a different MIDI CC, with no need to receive that CC. Is there any way to do that?

If I put a MIDI Automate module in my patch, and assign the panel knob to the module's Value knob, then I seem to be unable to assign the corresponding button to anything. Is there any way around this?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not much use this probably .. there was something with it ... with buttons and associated knobs and the order in which to do things ... sorry, that's all I recall.
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, use a seq module. Don't have the G2 in front of me, so not sure which is lightest DSP wise. But the seq modules allow knob and button control with MIDI. And you get several of them!
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ark



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Yes, use a seq module. Don't have the G2 in front of me, so not sure which is lightest DSP wise. But the seq modules allow knob and button control with MIDI. And you get several of them!
And how do I handle MIDI feedback?

That is, if the application on the computer end changes the value of the MIDI CC, how do I get that information to show up on the LED surround for the G2 knob? The automate module handles that automatically.
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ark wrote:
jksuperstar wrote:
Yes, use a seq module. Don't have the G2 in front of me, so not sure which is lightest DSP wise. But the seq modules allow knob and button control with MIDI. And you get several of them!
And how do I handle MIDI feedback?

That is, if the application on the computer end changes the value of the MIDI CC, how do I get that information to show up on the LED surround for the G2 knob? The automate module handles that automatically.


Are you referring to internal midi feedback within the G2, or external feedback?

I've used MidiOx in the past to avoid that, but now MidiYoke may also be of use.

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ark



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
Are you referring to internal midi feedback within the G2, or external feedback?

External feedback.

In other words: sometimes the value of the parameter I am trying to adjust with the G2 changes through other means. When that happens, the external device sends a MIDI signal back to the G2. I want to be sure that signal affects the state of the corresponding control on the G2, because otherwise when I turn the G2 knob, the result will be a jump in the value of the parameter in the external device.

If I use a MIDI automate module in the G2, it just works; but there appear to be glitches with other modules I've tried to use.
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ark wrote:
cappy2112 wrote:
Are you referring to internal midi feedback within the G2, or external feedback?

External feedback.

If I use a MIDI automate module in the G2, it just works; but there appear to be glitches with other modules I've tried to use.


If you're already using a computer for the editor, then MidiOx & Midiyoke are free. If you're having this program live, then you need a filter from MidiSolutions, etc.. I'm thinking of their Event Processor and/or their Midi Router
http://www.midisolutions.com/

I once deliberately made a feedback loop from a Peavey PC1600 into a Matrix 6R, using a Midi patch bay which had lots of filtering options. I actually made a remote patch editor using this setup.

I was able to filter out the offending messages while passing the message(s) that I wanted. It worked fine but took me awhile to figure out what I needed to throw away.

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ark



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
If you're already using a computer for the editor, then MidiOx & Midiyoke are free. If you're having this program live, then you need a filter from MidiSolutions, etc.. I'm thinking of their Event Processor and/or their Midi Router
http://www.midisolutions.com/
I already have Midi OX. I guess I'm going to have to give in and try using MIDI Yoke so that I can see what's going on.
cappy2112 wrote:
I was able to filter out the offending messages while passing the message(s) that I wanted. It worked fine but took me awhile to figure out what I needed to throw away.

It's a shame, because I'm very close to understanding the differences -- I was hoping that someone else would be able to say "Yes, I tried that, and here's why it doesn't work..."
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As long as you have Local Control turned off, and provide a loopback path through the computer as suggested, you should be fine. The MIDI will both transmit and receive.

There's a couple threads that I can't seem to find that are related to your question exactly, and Dasz had posted the final solution using a Seq module to allow both button and knob to be assigned.
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ark



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
As long as you have Local Control turned off, and provide a loopback path through the computer as suggested, you should be fine. The MIDI will both transmit and receive.

Actually, that part works.

Not only that, but if I MIDI-assign the eight knobs of a MixFader module, they actually respond to MIDI feedback properly.

However, sometimes, for reasons I don't understand, the controller values jump from one number to another when I am using the MixFader. They don't when I'm using Automate modules.

So if I use Automate modules, everything seems to work correctly but I can't assign the panel buttons separately. If I use a MixFader, everything works correctly most of the time, but there are glitches under circumstances that I have not yet been able to determine.
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="ark"]
cappy2112 wrote:

I already have Midi OX. I guess I'm going to have to give in and try using MIDI Yoke so that I can see what's going on.
cappy2112 wrote:
I was able to filter out the offending messages while passing the message(s) that I wanted. It worked fine but took me awhile to figure out what I needed to throw away.


MidiOX will show you incoming/outgoing messages.

MidiYoke is just a midi port router.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
MidiOX will show you incoming/outgoing messages.

MidiYoke is just a midi port router.

I understand that. But MidiOX only works between ports and is not a port itself. So in order to interpose MidiOX between the G2 and my application, I need MidiYoke to make the application look like a port to MidiOX.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I understand now. I'd try to make sure nothing is hitting the variation MIDI CC command, since that will make things jump.

And I guess MIDIOX will tell you the rest. Hopefully.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aha! I think I have found at least part of the problem.

If I use a MIDI Automate module, turning a knob that is associated with the module updates the state of the panel display immediately, regardless of whether MIDI Local is on or off. If I use another kind of module, and assign it to a MIDI controller, turning the knob does not change anything--it just sends the MIDI signal. Then, when that signal is echoed by the device being controlled, the echo changes the state of the knob and updates the panel display...


MIDI Example 2.pch2
 Description:
This example uses a Constant module and a MIDI assignment. Note that if MIDI Local is off, turning the knob does not change the state of the module.

Download
 Filename:  MIDI Example 2.pch2
 Filesize:  748 Bytes
 Downloaded:  508 Time(s)


MIDI Example 1.pch2
 Description:
This example uses a MIDI Automate module. Even if MIDI Local is turned off, turning the physical knob changes the panel display on the G2 and also updates the state of the module immediately.

Download
 Filename:  MIDI Example 1.pch2
 Filesize:  761 Bytes
 Downloaded:  516 Time(s)

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