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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Modulating between Two Sequencer's in the G2...
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hyperstationjr



Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 104
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Modulating between Two Sequencer's in the G2... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While this sounds like a simple enough task, I have a particular effect in mind.

What I'd like to do (in the simplest form possible) is have two Control Sequencers. Both would be routed to a single prec. module. Both sequencers would be set to different sequences.

What I want to do is modulate between the two, but if I used a simple cross-fader, all that would happen is a mixing of the two sequences. I think a graphic Image would help...

O - - - - - - - O - - - - - - -
- - - - O - - - - - - - O - - -

Seq. one has a message on beats 1 and 9, while Seq. two has a message on beats 5 and 13. What I'd like to happen is, while modulating between them, the beats will move between the two beats, say to beats 3 and 11.

I tried creating similar effects using a single sequencer into a delay, but that didn't give me the results I was after. Ideally, the effect would be on beat, or at least close....

I'm not sure how to make this happen at all, and I hope that sort of explains it, any suggestions???

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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could try using a 3rd sequencer, that generates a signal to select A, B, or some combo of A & B. Then, setup a Morph on this sequencer...With the Morph all OFF, you'd get Seq A, with Morph full on, you get sequence B. Somewhere in the middle, you could get a mix of the two.

Variations could then put emphasis on certain beats first, before switching in other beats.

The E-Mu Command Stations had a feature like this, as you turned the mod wheel, it would "busy up" a beat...ie- with the knob turned off, it would be a simple "boom-chick-boom-chick", but as you turned on the knob, it brought it hats, wood blocks, whatever. Basically muxing across sequences like you are doing. Then ethey added "XFADE", which allowed you to specifically bring in tracks from a new pattern to replace the old pattern gradually. This is what I was emulating with the sequencer trick above.
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The Why Project



Joined: Dec 05, 2004
Posts: 118
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something like this?
BTW, as both sequences are clocked to the same
clock, switching between them will always happen
'on the beat'...

Regards,

The Why Project


2SeqSwitch.pch2
 Description:
Switch between sequences...

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 Filename:  2SeqSwitch.pch2
 Filesize:  1.29 KB
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hyperstationjr



Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JKSuperstar: So do you mean just to switch between the two beats as WhyProj. suggested??

Why Project: No, I knew about that and have done some stuff with very complex sequencing systems. What I want to happen would be more like a "swing", but in effect, be a "swing" into a different beat if that makes sense.

One way I almost got it is by sending the sequencer into a sync delay and setting it to only one "tap". That way I'd be able to modulate the beat to different a different beat of the measure, while still being in sync. However that only produces half of what I'd like to happen. The other half would be to modulate the "delayed" beat into a new beat all together.

Does that sort of make sense??? I know Autechre did this sort of thing with Max/MSP, so I'm trying to get it done on the G2.

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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Modulating between Two Sequencer's in the G2... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hyperstationjr wrote:

What I want to do is modulate between the two, but if I used a simple cross-fader, all that would happen is a mixing of the two sequences. I think a graphic Image would help...

O - - - - - - - O - - - - - - -
- - - - O - - - - - - - O - - -

Seq. one has a message on beats 1 and 9, while Seq. two has a message on beats 5 and 13. What I'd like to happen is, while modulating between them, the beats will move between the two beats, say to beats 3 and 11.



Hmm. So it sounds like you want to shift the PHASE of the sequences in time, not morph between their levels?

You could do that by clocking/reseting one of the sequencers (or both of them) from one of the bigger LFOs that has a phase control, and modulate this control to shift the sequences forward & backward in phase relative to each other.

Both of these LFOs should be sync'd to a common clock source so the phase control will be predictable.

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hyperstationjr



Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I'm still trying to get this done. I'll try explaining once more, and hopefully someone will have some advice.

The basics of what I want is this: The idea would mainly be for drum sounds. I would take 2 different beat sequences (not from any specific module if that helps...). So right there I would have 2 different beats.

What I would like to do is create a function/patch/system of some kind in which I can set up those two user-determined beats, and modulate between the two. By modulating, I don't mean to just sort of pan between the two, because that would be easy with amy Xfade module. What I want to happen would be a sort of "breeding" of the two sequences, so that by turning a knob (or several), I would get a mutation/modulation between the two beats.

The effect would probably be similar to setting the "Swing" on a "Clock" module, but it would be "swinging" or "phasing" or whatever terminology helps, into a totally new beat, so that it doesn't just take the entirety of the sequence and delay it, but actually causes the sequence it's self to change, adding/removing/changing the beats as the two different sequences are modulated.

Does this at all help? Is this at all possible on the Nord G1/G2 or on ANYTHING? Even Max/MSP? I am hoping I can do it on the Nord as I have a G1 and G2 engine... I'm not really too good with max at all, but I know someone who uses it so it MAY be possible... although they don't really do much with music...

At any rate... if anyone has ANY suggestions or advice, I'd really appreciate it!

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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm.... You say you're trying to get a sequence of events to shift from position 1 to 3 to 5, and from 9 to 11 to 13, but you're NOT trying to shift the phase of the sequence relative to the downbeat? It sounds like that's exactly what you're trying to do.

To get a sequence of events to change to a different sequence of events, you can either move individual events in time (shift the phase), or turn individual events on & off. Is there another axis of interpolation?

If you are trying to get individual events in a sequence to turn on & off, but do it one event at a time as you slowly turn a knob (first change the 1 to a 3, THEN change a 6 to a 10, THEN add a 16 where there was no event, etc) there are a couple of ways to do it:

1. GRADUAL ON/OFF CHANGES: Use several event sequencers, each one set just a little different from the one before, and connect them to the MUX module. Control the MUX with a Constant Module knob to get an eight-way crossfade between each sequence.

2. GRADUAL COMPLEX TIME-BASED CHANGES: Use the LFO-Clocking phase control idea described earlier, but use several sequencers, each one providing only one or two of the events in the total sequence, and connect all of their outputs to a set of "OR" modules (or a mixer). Now control each of these sequencers from a different LFO, and set the phase mod input to a different depth for each LFO. Control the phase of all of the LFOs from the same Constant module. This allows you to shift a 1 to a 2, but also shift the 3 to a 9, and even move some events backwards from a 12 to a 10 by inverting the signal from the Constant module going to some of the LFOs.

Does this help?

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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hyperstationjr wrote:
Does this at all help?


No, I still don't know what you want, swing BTW is simply delaying the off beat by a small % to add a groove.

I did think about what you said and made this patch.

It uses probability modulated RND trig modules, the modulation is setup so that at maximum, only pattern A is present, at minimum, only pattern B.
Values in between give a mixture of both beat sets, random, but you can control the bias with the knob and/or LFO.


PatternMorph.pch2
 Description:
morph 2 patterns

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 Filename:  PatternMorph.pch2
 Filesize:  1.81 KB
 Downloaded:  1349 Time(s)

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rnp



Joined: Sep 14, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the patch g2ian, enjoying the possibilities a lot. very useful and smooth way to switch between patches. definitely what I was thinking of when I read the original post.

adding a couple of clkdividers and logic delays and assigning everything to knobs gives you awesome live tweakage possibilities.

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